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Yes, women go to strip clubs. We drink beer and eat wings at Hooters. We hire prancing men in Speedos for our bachelorette parties and Cardio Striptease is women's domain at the gym. But the primary market demand for stripping, lap dancing, and other forms of fleshertainment come from men.
So why are so many men paying women to take off their clothes?
And that still doesn't answer the question why men choose to buy women's bodies and whether it's time for them to stop.
The thing is, this isn't just about stripping. Take away the pole, and we're still left with a host of problems and a crisis in masculinity: A culture that rewards men for being hyperaggressive and punishes those who can't or won't. We have pop culture films like I Love You, Man, which shows men bumbling through authentic interpersonal relationships. There's the Judd Apatow movie model that portrays guys as perpetual kidults who might not ever really grow up. Or Dito Montiel's new flick Fighting that suggests the way hard-bodied men stand tough is by kicking ass.
Yet with tons of mixed messages and no good roadmap, it's still crucial for guys to achieve successful masculinity. Failure is not an option because the stakes are really high.
While the subject matter is interesting, the seeded article offered almost nothing but superficial lip-service to the underlying theme.
So why are so many men paying women to take off their clothes?
Men are paying sexy women to take off their clothes because their wife or GF have lost their much of their sexiness.
Men are paying sexy women to take off their clothes because their wife or GF have lost their much of their sexiness.
Then men are failing to dig deeper then the skin of the person who they are with. That is a sad state.
Hi, Loretta. Thank you for the seed. I'm seriously underwhelmed by the author - she takes an issue that is probably older than the human civilization itself (men liking all things related to sex, and for real men all things are related to sex) - and pretends to try to analyze it from the point of view of contemporary feminism. IMO asking that question is akin to asking "why men breathe?" Cause that's what we do. No, no, no I stand corrected, we breathe so we can stay alive long enough to have real, imaginary or self-inflicted sex, and when we do - we breathe heavily, so we can survive the oxygen deprivation, that customarily accompanies an erection, and live long enough to repeat the process, preferably in perpetuity.
Men are paying sexy women to take off their clothes because their wife or GF have lost their much of their sexiness.
How incredibly shallow.
As someone who is a frequenter of such gentlemen adventures I will tell you exactly why I do.
Mainly to feel a woman's touch.
I seem to fall in and out of relationships often. I work hard at making them work, but they never seem to work. Maybe I just look in the wrong places, I don't really know what I'm doing half the time.
I work for a small company, live in a town way away from anyone I know, and I just don't get out enough. So when I am in a lull and feel the need for a woman's touch, I go.
That's why I go anyway.
The more simple answer is men want to see and touch some boobs and the internet can take you only so far.
Then men are failing to dig deeper then the skin of the person who they are with. That is a sad state.
Gotta start somewhere.
So why are so many men paying women to take off their clothes?
You've lost me. Are you referring to stripping or dating? LOL.
So why are so many men paying women to take off their clothes?
I think we can arrive at something like a correct answer to this question.
1) Men are visually stimulated to an absurd degree.
2) Real relationships are hard work.
3) Real relationships make you vulnerable.
Going to a strip club to have some naked girl grind against your boner is satisfying 1) aesthetically, 2) it's easy, and 3) you have nothing at stake because a transaction is taking place.
Each of these justifications can be used for prostitution as well.
Unfortunately, all data seem to indicate that both prostitution and stripping correlate with high levels of domestic violence, drug abuse, and a host of other problems. I am not implying causation, but the correlation is there. All indications are that women in flesh-based professions are less than healthy, anecdotal evidence aside. We need to be concerned about this, because over the last hundred years or so we've actually started to consider women to be people.
If only healthy relationships weren't so god damn difficult.
Unfortunately, all data seem to indicate that both prostitution and stripping correlate with high levels of domestic violence, drug abuse, and a host of other problems.
I don't buy that because countries like The Netherlands, and Germany legalize it... among others and have lower crime rates then we do and a host of other things. Fact is.. people are going to do it.. regardless. Why not make it more safe and responsible?
Take away the pole, and we're still left with a host of problems and a crisis in masculinity: A culture that rewards men for being hyperaggressive and punishes those who can't or won't. We have pop culture films like I Love You, Man, which shows men bumbling through authentic interpersonal relationships. There's the Judd Apatow movie model that portrays guys as perpetual kidults who might not ever really grow up. Or Dito Montiel's new flick Fighting that suggests the way hard-bodied men stand tough is by kicking ass.
Yet with tons of mixed messages and no good roadmap, it's still crucial for guys to achieve successful masculinity. Failure is not an option because the stakes are really high.
Do you really think that men go to movies to seek out role models for how to behave? That they take their cues for how to deal with relationships form raunchy comedies? No one assumes that what is going on in those films is realistic, and men don't watch them hoping to get some pointers on how to be in a relationship. Movies like that are popular because they play to certain sensibilities (comedy, sexiness, machismo, etc.), not because they they reflect what men want or intend to be.
People read too much into pop culture and think that things like movies, or music, or even strip clubs, represent crises that are destroying our society, merely because they don't depict things in a way that fits a certain ideal norm. Films like those may not contain good role models for men and women, bu they never were intended to be role models in the first place.
Nicey-1026620 Mainly to feel a woman's touch. I seem to fall in and out of relationships often. I work hard at making them work, but they never seem to work. Maybe I just look in the wrong places, I don't really know what I'm doing half the time.
boneclinkz 1) Men are visually stimulated to an absurd degree. 2) Real relationships are hard work. 3) Real relationships make you vulnerable. Going to a strip club to have some naked girl grind against your boner is satisfying 1) aesthetically, 2) it's easy, and 3) you have nothing at stake because a transaction is taking place.
Bull, and bull. Men go to strip-joints because it is legal, and too many of us have to loose a lot if caught with the prostitute (not everyone is a pro-athlete, or a Hollywood stud). If there was a legal (and affordable) brothel inside the whole stripping industry would be out of business, or most likely would be served as a prelude to an orgy. It is also interesting to observe that in the countries where the prostitution is readily available and either fully or semi-legal, the quality of dancers and programs in strip-joints is head and shoulders above the average in the US.
The truth is men - most men are too chicken (too emasculated) to hire a real pro, and have a real sex, so we go to these fantasies, to delude ourselves that we are still relevant on the sex scene.
I actually just wrote a great big newsvine column in response to this article.
Essentially the point was that men pay women to take off their clothes because not enough of them are doing it for free. Feminism broke away from the sexual revolution, and now plays a role in reinforcing traditional notions of female sexual morality which are still dominant in western society, especially in the United States. Women can't openly and confidently exercise their sexuality outside of traditional boundaries without facing social reprobation. In demonizing stripping, pornography and prostitution, practices which, I must admit, are degrading to women in their current practice if not in principle, feminism implicity condemns the way these women choose to express their sexuality. In doing so it reinforces the cultural meme of female sexual virtue, and by extension sexual inequality between women and men.
One could also ask the question:
Why are so many women charging men to watch them take off their clothes?
Men are paying sexy women to take off their clothes because their wife or GF have lost their much of their sexiness.
That would certainly explain Bill Clinton playing hide the cigar ...
So Why Are So Many Men Paying Women to Take off Their Clothes?
Back in 1989 I signed up to take flying lessons with a curmudgeonly instructor who was around 50 or 60 years old. Bob was quite the character. In addition to dispensing advice about aviation, he'd wander off onto other topics, like thriftiness. Once he remarked to me and another male student,
"If it flies, floats, or @!$%#s it's cheaper to rent it."
Dang men and their thousands of years of genetic response!! Why couldn't we have been born women? Men are EVIL...yadda yadda yadda......
"If it flies, floats, or @!$%#s it's cheaper to rent it."
Lmao.
Women can't openly and confidently exercise their sexuality outside of traditional boundaries without facing social reprobation. In demonizing stripping, pornography and prostitution, practices which, I must admit, are degrading to women in their current practice if not in principle, feminism implicity condemns the way these women choose to express their sexuality.
Doc (#1.17), sorry, but you know the wrong kind of women. I've never known a woman who couldn't "exercise" her sexuality (not the most felicitous phrase, that) as she saw fit.
Women, as do men, come with all sorts of attitudes: some are inhibited, some are oppressed, some are open and assertive. If adult men want to give adult women money for sexual demonstration of any level, that's their choice; if women chose to take the money, that's their choice. Anyone who gets involved in that choice is intruding and trying to impose behavior that is outside of, and irrelevant to, the two involved adults.
Let's all leave them alone and be about our own business.
To see what is underneath. Really, this is primary motivation.
Yes, women go to strip clubs. We drink beer and eat wings at Hooters. We hire prancing men in Speedos for our bachelorette parties and Cardio Striptease is women's domain at the gym. But the primary market demand for stripping, lap dancing, and other forms of fleshertainment come from men.
So why are so many men paying women to take off their clothes?
In reality it is the same reason that while some men may curl up on the couch and read Wurthering Heights, or go out to see the new Sandra Bullock love movies, or might have a shelf of Harlequin dime store love novels in their home, but the primary market for these services are Women.
Women and Men just draw stimulation from different stimuli is has long been that way and will continue that way for as long as both genders exist on the planet.
In the end of it sitting down and demonizing one side or the other isn't going to accomplish much in the long run it will make things worse.
Do treating these women like objects unsavory? Of course it is, however at the end of the day they have free will and as my mother always told me "Respect is all-ways earned, Never given!"
These women who choose to strip have their freedom, and freedom also means the right to make the wrong choice. Just as the men who choose to go to a strip bar to relieve their frustration instead of trying to bridge the gap between Female and Male perceptions and build true relationships. Both sides are also free to live with the consequences.
Lmao.
Yeah, Bob was a real character. We were training in a Piper Comanche, not your typical trainer because it had retractable gear and a constant-speed propeller which made it a tad harder to fly and put it in the "complex aircraft" category. If you forget to deploy the gear before landing not only will you scrape the underside of the fuselage, but also the prop will contact the runway and it's time to pony up the $$$ for a new one. There was some acronym I've long since forgotten we'd use as a pre-landing checklist, and one step was gear down and locked (3 green lights, one for each wheel). If one light's not lit it could be a broken signal wire or it could be the gear got stuck. So then you pull gear up and then down again a few times until you get 3 greens. If not you fly to an airport with a control tower, ask the controller to look to see if all 3 are down (they have binoculars).
Fortunately we never had that problem! Old Pipers were rock-solid aircraft. After earning my wings I flew Archers and Cherokees which were basically the same plane.
Back on topic, I wasn't one of those guys who paid money for chicks to strip. If I wanted to see some T&A I'd get it from my S.O. or when single from a Playboy maybe. My last GF was totally hawt so I wasn't tempted to look elsewhere. I did though attend a bachelor party at some club in Manhattan where you'd pay $20 for a lap dance with no stripping. I might have shelled out $60 or $80, plus whatever the bar charged for Heinekens (probably way too much LOL).
Now people fool around aloft as well. If you do it above 5,000 feet you've joined the Mile High Club :-) I had numerous opportunities but didn't do it, who knows why. And having one's attention on sex means diverting it from scanning the skies for other planes you might smack into.
I did date a woman who owned her own plane though. She had dated a pilot and they were charter members of the Mile High Club. She told me of times she'd stripped herself naked before the plane had climbed 1,000 feet off the ground!
So Why Are So Many Men Paying Women to Take off Their Clothes?
Does it matter? If women are selling men are buying. Conversely if a woman chooses to strip, it is her choice, why do it for free. Make some money who cares. Everyone is different. If no one is getting hurt does it matter? Nope not really.
Men are visual, Women are emotional.
The article fails at a number of levels... But a great seed.
My answer is .... Why not!
When I was a socially backward young man in my late teens I found myself drawn to porno theatres in Sydney. Very much against my will, but I had no other outlet - this was decades before the era of Internet porn. I felt it was a personal failing at the time, and I felt ashamed of it. But I enjoyed it too.
Between movies, the proprietors would put on a strip show. This was partly tradition, and partly a come-on for the brothels that ran next door. Prostitution has been legal in Australia for a long time, and it's no big deal here.
I always used to dread attention from the strippers. I didn't think of them as artists or as people, but as some kind of door-to-door salesman for tits. I would sit way up the back of the theatre and feel a sense of relief when they finally exited the stage - partly because of the drop in my anxiety, and partly because it meant the porn would start again.
That all changed one day in a dismal dive on George street. In the break between one-reel flicks came this girl ... she can't have been older than I was. At first it seemed like the same old thing but then ...
She danced to an extended mix of 10CC's "I'm Not In Love". And she was dazzling. There was no lap dancing or mock-masturbation. She just danced, and part way through the dance it transpired that she wore no clothes.
I couldn't take my eyes off her. Today, I can't remember what her face looked like. Her body was lithe and lean, but not hard - healthy and pale and smooth. She wasn't remarkably pretty - it was all in the way she moved to the music. I sat spellbound. So did the other men in the theatre. When the music finished, you could hear a pin drop. And then ...
The place erupted in applause. Dimly lit men in raincoats straightened their clothes, got to their feet, and gave her a standing ovation. Whistles and cries of "encore!" filled the porno theatre.
So she came out and did it again. It was just as good as the first time, maybe better, and she finished covered in a sheen of sweat, grinning from ear to ear.
Then the porno came back on and things quietened down. When I got off and went back out into the world, there was a bounce in my step and a smile on my face. Unlike the way I usually felt retreating from such a low place, I felt I'd had a special privilege, been granted a vision of one of the hidden gems of the universe.
In Sydney, you can see any number of topless and sometimes bottomless young ladies disporting in the sun at any beach. But you can't see anything like what that stripper was doing. She was truly an artist, and though I am a very happily married man, no longer driven by the juice of youth, I'll never forget her. I was transported by her. What I saw her do is why men pay to see women take off their clothes. If you'd seen her, you'd have paid too.
Good times brother, good times!
Ain't nothin' wrong with admiring the female form.
It has been done since the dawn of mankind (and womankind), from Cleopatra on down the line.
Men like women, it's a natural as the tides.
I saw no reason to pay for something that I could get for free. It was always the sweet, kind, quite girls I liked and the girls in Strip Joints are not that. Then I turned 20, asked my current wife to marry me, and that's how it's been for 18 years. Even now I do not care to go to a strip joint. My wife is still flaming hot and the love of my life.
I see it in my son now. His girlfriends are the shy, quite, girls that you want your son to marry.
Bull, and bull. Men go to strip-joints because it is legal, and too many of us have to loose a lot if caught with the prostitute (not everyone is a pro-athlete, or a Hollywood stud). If there was a legal (and affordable) brothel inside the whole stripping industry would be out of business
So how would going to a brothel be any different than the reason I gave. To feel physical closeness with a woman.
So how would going to a brothel be any different than the reason I gave. To feel physical closeness with a woman.
It is not - it's just that we (you, me and most of the rest of us) are too chicken to hire a pro, at least in this country.
Come to Nevada, we got legal hookers, booze, and gambling, what more could you want?
I'll take you guys to one of those brothels that is nothing more than a trailer home in a field, so you see the majesty!
;~)
Thanks, but no thanks, let's go to Moscow. I'll take you to one of those brothels, that have Zanaboni furniture, and the girls are still affordable.
Interesting.
I've always wanted to visit the old country.
;~)
a dearth of role models, a problem with monogamous relationships, a lack of emotional control and hormones ...worldwide
Not to mention at least 500,000 years of evolutionary biology that make monogamy a far more rewarding strategy for females than males.
Look Brothels have been around for forever, and they are not going away...
If you read the old west accounts of how the brothels took care of the needy and the poor.
Those girls made their money and they helped society in more ways than one.
As far as strippers.. The last great burlesque dancers have all died and went on to greater rewards..
But human female form will always be wanted by the male. So there for they have every right to take off their clothes and I as a free citizen of the U.S.A. will have every right to watch them do it and pay for the privilege.. GOD BLESS AMERICA!
Because they won't do it for free. I blame the women.
Isn't there a name for women who won't do it for free?
Isn't there a name for women who won't do it for free?
Well if your calling names... isn't there a name for women who will do it for free?
Then there's a name for a woman who will do it for anyone but you!
Then there's a name for a woman who will do it for anyone but you!
@!$%#.
Because they won't do it for free. I blame the women.
I regret that I have but one vote to give for this comment.
ezeques1--
Isn't there a name for women who won't do it for free?
Capitalist.
Men stop maturing intellectually at ten years old. If you don't believe it, just look at the stunts on America's Funniest Home Videos. If you don't believe it, just look at the myriad of boy toys, including guns, that men cherish close to the chest. If you don't believe it just try having a normal conversation with a horny man without juvenile sexual banter, him staring at your private zones, male or female or his mind wandering off into fantasyland.
Men are heavily controlled in their "urges" and remain mentally hidden behind and with dreams of danger unfulfilled, physical conquests not won and sexual experiences not consumated. When the levels of testosterone increase, the tools develop and when the maturity that comes with successful mangement of those hormones is experienced, then maturity may proceed. Without the successful mastery of masculinity, maturity is stunted and locked into adolescence or even less. Men are born with one undeveloped brain and around ten are saddled with another. The first may or may not develop but the second is repressed from the moment of its occurence.
What male is able to develop fully according to nature's plan with the deep suppression of instincts, rampant hormones and heavily enforced, unnatural civility in our society? I'm not saying this as an excuse or suggesting that rape, pillage and general mayhem should be permitted in society, but I think that as laws become more repressive, all encompassing and thoroughly enforced, that the diminishment of masculinity will become more pronounced.
There will come a time when birth control will become unnecessary because men will have been shut off with a suppression switch and humankind will fade into extinction. That is of course unless they kill each other off first by substituting violence for sex.
Wow... its clear you don't like men at all....
Nah .... she was pretty tame.
There was only two cut & pastes in it, and no originality. Nothing about beating brains out, beasts of mankind, evil dominering geniuses, warped genes, no Barbie dolls were religiously burnt, indications are the bra's still intact (which is a pretty poor show), and Rambo only got a couple of Barbs - pretty lame attempt really.
She'll get better at it as she grows up, at the moment she still thinks that was all terribly original.
What pissed me off about this article was the implicit condemnation of the suckers. I wouldn't condemn the ladies either, but the notion that this is somehow all the fault of the men is sheer bull@!$%#. Neither could exist without the other.
In a sexually healthy, non-repressive society, strippers would starve. Imagine the confusion of a Polynesian native (pre white invasion) if some white man tried to explain the concept of the strip bar to him or her. It just would not compute.
Men stop maturing intellectually at ten years old.
And the proof is the stuff on t.v.? Your listening to the loud minority. The silent majority is just as content to being with their wives, and loved ones. Those people are defenders of their household, breadwinners and caregivers.
Okay, so women are automatically mature? What about all those shows that show women as nothing more then sex-craving Barbie dolls in high heels? Or women that whine and cry when they don't get what they want? Women who use men for whatever they can get, gossip and tear down other women, use children as pawns in domestic fights, or use guilt and emotions to make a husband do whatever they want?
Face it. Both sexes have their problems, especially if you're using television and the media to get your information.
^ Oh I'm sure some women would say and blame that on men somehow....
Hey SR, Alex and everyone! I am VERY content with my wife. My son is great with his. My daughter has a loving, caring man to take care of her and her soon to be new baby. Some men are OK, most are @!$%#s and I like women better.
My comment was originally intended as sardonic humor. However, the more I think about those whom I have met and interacted with over my 72 year span, the more I'm convinced that I may be onto something. As for the men who don't like my observations, TFB. Think about what I've said the next time you climb on a bike and pull a wheelie, shoot a gun just to hear and feel the sexual thump-thump, skydive out of an airplane or bungie off a bridge or fall on your ass sliding off the snowy house roof in just your skivvies with a beer in your hand. Yeah, that's what I thought!...ten years old.
I agree with yankee.
And because of all that - I really feel sorry for men. It's not easy being them. Honestly, what in the hell can a person get done when they are constantly thinking abut sex?
That being said,
They have no business running the world!!!!
Honestly, what in the hell can a person get done when they are constantly thinking abut sex?
Well... look at most of the stuff in this World today and stuff you use everyday and take for granted. Most of it came from a man. :P
A few men got together and are responsible for creating and dreaming up Newsvine we all use on a daily basis. ;)
Most of it came from a man
Impotent, no doubt.
:~)
We made a huge mistake when we "decided" that the only path to sexual equity was to first destroy the traditional roles of men and women.
Now, we are stuck in some pseudo-sexual abyss, lacking direction or meaning.
Naturally, both gender roles have suffered because of this decision.
And most of us deserve it at one point or another.
Men stop maturing intellectually at ten years old.
Did you mean emotionally? It makes us more conversationally compatible in this sense with our species opposites and resulting offspring during early development periods.
Hey Mike!
Naturally, both gender roles have suffered because of this decision
Nice twist and with a kernel of truth.
Time tells us that as women become more and more integrated into mens' environments that their testosterone levels increase, stress levels become more pronounced, the quest for power increases and that they begin to show more and more of the characteristics of a "man's" deficiencies...and aggression. Their masculine side becomes more assertive.
Stay at home men also begin to morph with more and more bouts of surly depression, sometimes ridiculous sinking levels of low self esteem and more elastic compliance from dominantly assertive mates or aggressive strangers. Deferral for the sake of non confrontation and a DROP in testosterone levels add to the low self esteem and bouts of depression as well. Their feminine side becomes more assertive.
Nature designed us with roles and the most successful of us are fully aware of and accept those roles without taking on egotistical and stupid airs of superiority. For instance, a woman can be a WONDERFUL CEO as long as she doesn't try to emulate or even mimic men by accepting and using the qualities and attitudes that nature assigned her. Men can be WONDERFUL stay at home Dads as long as they take pride in their homes and don't allow low self esteem to overcome them. Doing masculine things in the time available helps to reinforce his persona. Outdoor work is particularly gratifying.
Sound simplistic? Well, it's not! It really IS that simple. Attitude and self respect are everything! If we get off our high horses and be the best we can be at whatever role fate and nature has assigned, we'll be very cool indeed.
OK everybody, that's enough talk. Let's all get LAID!
OK everybody, that's enough talk. Let's all get LAID!
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAW!
What's the male analogue of misogyny?
Not at all, the opposite, in fact.
Misandry would be hatred of men.
I love men. I even feel sorry for their predicament. (not sarcasm)
Honestly, what in the hell can a person get done when they are constantly thinking abut sex?
Quite a lot. In fact they say that watching naked boobies is akin to a light aerobic exercise, because of elevated heart-rate, they actually recommend in lieu of the real thing. As for thinking about it - we only think about it every 5 seconds, which lives the other 4 seconds to think about other things.
They have no business running the world!!!!
Hey, you girls had your turn - it was called matriarchy. Apparently you didn't do so well, so we had to come up with patriarchy and finally make some real progress.
However, scholars and archeologists such as Marija Gimbutas and Riane Eisler [13] describe their notion of a "woman-centered" society surrounding goddess worshipthroughout Pre History (Paleolithic and Neolithic Europe) and ancient civilizations, by using the term matristic"exhibiting influence or domination by the mother figure". The notion of such a "woman-centered" society is also confirmed by major archeologists J. J. Bachofen, whose three-volume Myth, Religion and Mother Right (1861), impacted the way classicists such as Jane Harrison, Sir Arthur Evans [14], looked at the evidence of pre-Hellenic societies, Walter Burkert and James Mellaart: "The goddesses of Greek polytheism, so different and complementary," Walter Burkert has observed, in Homo Necans (1972) 1983:79f, "are nonetheless, consistently similar at an earlier stage, with one or the other simply becoming dominant in a sanctuary or city. Each is the Great Goddess presiding over a male society; each is depicted in her attire as Mistress of the Beasts, and Mistress of the Sacrifice, even Hera and Demeter".
What I also find confusing is that Elam - a matristic (exhibiting influence or domination by the mother figure) high-culture is best known by the story of Gilgamesh, ostensibly a man who didn't mind sex and naked women at all. Curious, that someone with that background should attack us for what we are, and for what we accomplished.
Roger, not sure why you think we didn't do a good job.
Do you also believe that the Native American Peoples didn't do so well just because they were taken over by bullies?
Pretty masculine (and may I say, non-evolved) a thought.
Roger, not sure why you think we didn't do a good job.
Please note we accomplished both. If you, the women who used to run things, did your jobs well enough, than neither 1 or 2 would not have happen. Ergo it is you, the women, have no business running the world. Especially the humorless feminists.
Do you also believe that the Native American Peoples didn't do so well just because they were taken over by bullies?
No I believethat the Native American Peoples lost their lands and largely their way of life, because they didn't do so well to begin with (i.e. got stuck neolithic times, managed to forget the wheel), so when an enemy superior in every way imaginable arrived... well the rest is history. Nearing I am very sorry, but when 30 people take over a continent, you can of course call them bullies), but some blame had to lie with the local inhabitants. In case you're wondering I referring to Hernán Cortésde Monroy y Pizarro and his motley crew of conquistadors.
Pretty masculine (and may I say, non-evolved) a thought.
Masculine thought is indeed non-evolved by the feminine standards, too bad it is the one that gets things done. As for non-evolved, let's talk about your knowledge of history, and your ability to apply formal logic to it.
FYI - I just checked, I am a man, with normal physiological functions and reasonable levels of testosterone production, so if I had anything by the masculine thoughts, I would've been worried about my health. As it is - I am in a good masculine health physically, emotionally and mentally, thank you very much for asking. As for my evolution - my emotional range has exactly two knobs - food and sex, preferably in that order, and last time I checked it is the pinnacle of male evolution.
Roger, this is the second time you've shown up on my seeds claiming how superior you are. The other was because you are Jewish, thus superior to Blacks. Now it's because you are male and men are superior because they are more violent than women.
Please take the bigotry elsewhere. It isn't welcome here. Anything else along this line will be deleted.
Loretta, first of all I showed on your seed more than twice. Second of all I never, ever, ever claimed that I am superior to blacks because I am Jewish. I claimed and supported it with facts, that while Jewish people were a persecuted minority for the past 3,500 thousands of years, the overall result seem to be very different, than that of the blacks both in US and wordwide. FYI you did not dispute my numbers. Having said that - I have never in my life claimed personal superiority over anyone I do not know. Do I think highly of me? Yes I do. Do I think poorely of black people? I do not. Do I think that they can do better for themselves? Yes, I do. Do I think it largely their problems and not mine? Yes I do.
Now - I do not believe that men as superior than women. As a matter of fact I believe that women are "human v 2.0" and in almost every aspect, except perhaps the size and brute force (testosterone production) are superior to men. Having said that - please note that there were two very bigoted comments by your compadre nearing, who was already noted for her prominent mysandry by other guests on your vine, to which I was responding - one was about men not deserving of what they accomplished, and two about me being un-evolved.
Like I said in my posts - the worst kind of human being is a humorless feminist. So far I thought you didn't qualify, but it appears, when it comes to feminism you loose your sense of humor, which I know you have, and your objectivity, that you said you had too. Bottom line is - we obviously disagree about the double standard that you don't mind, and I wish to tolerate not at all. Regardless of my views of women, whom I loved my whole life, I will not take stupid illiterate crap from anyone whose only qualifications happens to be her blind faith in vagina studies - and by that I do not mean you, I have read enough of your posts and comments to have respect for you personally.
So I will do what I think is right, and you feel free to do what you think is right. I.e. you could maintain a single standard of mutual respect, or you can do what ALL liberals do - and that is silence the opponents.
I am also curious why are you responding to this and not to my 1.6 which I addressed to you.
Anyone who doesn't understand the allure of walking into a room filled with beautiful, naked women, and have them flirt with you and bring you drinks, "understands nothing of Tucco, NOTHING!"
Lon live feminizm - long live double standards.
Mr. Roger Rabbit--
You must be single, or you have a very submissive S.O.
Nice to see you are actually threatened by women. *smiling* I'll call you Patrick Bateman from now on.
Nice to see you are actually threatened by women. *smiling* I'll call you Patrick Bateman from now on.
You can call me Mr. Roger Rabbit, and I am not threatened by women, I am mostly ignored by them. :-) As for me being single - I was single, once or twice, but in the end I always seem to marry to the woman I love, and she is anything but submissive, unless I really, really, really beg for it. But it is normal - give and take - the more you give the better they take it, and vice versa.
You're a wise man Roger! You know the deal.
You're a wise man Roger! You know the deal.
:-) I guess it is why Loretta hates me so much.
Well, you simply cannot please everyone.
Such is life.
Well, you simply cannot please everyone.
You can't, but what a noble goal ! :-)
People of all types pay to see art. Men pay to see natures art, the feminine form and yes; they won't do it for free. The root cause is: men love women, love looking at women, and a variety of women. You don't go to the museum or an art show and just look at one piece nor look at the same piece forever ignoring all others. All the rest of that @!$%# is just a bunch of meaningless psycho babble.
Psycho babble is perfect! Men think about sex with woman they encounter about 27 times a day.
Men think about sex with woman they encounter about 27 times a day.
Not in my office.
Men think about sex with woman they encounter about 27 times a day.
Not in my office.
No women in your office, or no men?
You're just too picky, or undersexed...............LOL.
So why are so many men paying women to take off their clothes?
I too like to see boobies and other such things and boobies,too.
So, Yankee, why do you hate men so much? Not that you are alone, misandry has become so prevalent and accepted in our culture that it is viewed as "fact." If you really start looking at all the media sighted here, it portrays men is the worst possible ways.
As much as men are blamed for all the sins of the world, it is testosterone that has driven our species to procreate, explore, and create.
I don't hate men, I AM one for crypes sakes! Men are two brained, ten year old, testosterone driven @!$%#s, that's all. No biggie.
Men are two brained, ten year old, testosterone driven @!$%#s, that's all
And you're a troll. Off to the ignore list. Buh bye :-)
Hmm, lots of thoughts here. I don't blame anyone for anything; men or women. We are what we are, and "it" is what it is.
I do think, however, that 'Man" is a testosterone driven "a...", I mean animal; and I think a real "Man" acts differently because he has learned the consequences of emptiness and wants a meaningful and loving relationship.
Men and women are completely different from each other. I don't know why we just can't admit it.
See the South Park Tiger Woods episode-that should clear it up for you.
They really nailed it with the Alien Wizard thing. It's like we can't just admit that we think differently than women.
What's wrong with the truth?
The truth will get you fired at Harvard. I guess the truth will indeed set you free.
It's like we can't just admit that we think differently than women.
Yep, its because we think. Mostly about women, and three times a day about food, but we do think, which IMO is a big differentiator.
Hmmm... well.. here we go... Men have this biological drive to procreate... its why some men are called womanizers... Some woman have very high drives to procreate.. so because we are you know .. a patrilineal kind of society.. we call those women sluts... ITS BIOLOGY... not culture. You show me a society where there is a lack of so called ¨sluts¨ and i will show you a culture that controls women with violence. Please feminists... stop asking us to be you...we aren´t you.. we realize that it takes a simple effort to raise or lower a toilet seat.. we don´t make an issue of it.. Stop asking us questions you don´t want the answer to.. Also.. we don´t believe a headache can last 6 to 8 months.. go see a doctor.. and don´t complain when we go to the strip club to get a glimpse of some tail.. if you were on board.. we would be at home. As far as the reason so many men are looking.... its because so many women are takin it off... for @ $500 a night..no sex.. no mess no muss.. no call me?
This is a good Question and for me it is very obvious. I am a older woman and I have lived through the sexual revolution, Women's Liberation, and a decline in Societal Values on a world wide scale. Family values are in the toilet, people no longer go to church [in the majority], movies and TV portray sex at a level unheard of 30 years ago. The TV set is in every home , in every room, and the population sits like BORG plugged into the sex/ violence oriented material delivered by an ungoverned industry. There are at least 3 Generations of youths who had NO church, no God,NO value system, No Anything ,butif it itches "scratch it". Women have gone from clothing to be worn in the bedroom ,to wearing their underwear in public, and call it the newest fashion...I do not think it takes a a large stretch for folks to get my point. I think it is called being Modern. There used to be Emily Post, and moms and dads who taught the children values and propriety. That no longer happens as at least 3 generation of parents have no value systems of their owns....they go by the "let it all hang out" ,value nothing,and have no self respect themselves. It's cool, its hip, it's RAD, who knows what the newest coolest saying is to empower self absorbion. Since males have more testosterone than they need in a world where sitting at their computers is as violent as it gets for most....SEX is an unfulfilled,endless occupation fueled by TV, Movies,Media that severs up smut and bad manners as the latest new trend daily.
They had strippers and porn in the 20s. Your answer seems to be in error.
No error,just facts. You must be the one in the front row.??As the name implies"common man".
I feel like I should establish another identity to comment on this. (LOL)
kjpxxx: I'm probably at least as old as you. When I was growing up, Gypsy Rose Lee was an "entertainer" who had a national audience, appeared on stage, as well as radio and early TV shows, and was equally accepted by both men and women. Vaudville and the Ziegfeld follies were also overtly racy. I think people were more realistic in the days when they still lived on the farm with the farm animals (and I don't mean the human ones).
As for male/female differences, there was a really interesting interview on NPR a couple of years ago with a transgender individual for whom the decision was made in favor of female at birth, but who as an adult eventually decided that it had been a mistake. He described the change after the testosterone treatments began--his experience as a woman was overruled by the constant sexual response to virtually every female he encountered. (He also became fascinated by physics--also totally new and unexpected.) I tried to find the interview, but was unsuccessful. However, this article covers some of the same territory.
On the practical side:
If you guys aren't getting what you want, maybe it's because you're expecting a woman to respond instantly to stimuli--like a guy. A woman responds best to a man who will take the time to seduce her. It is an investment that will repay many times over. But don't expect much if you are into one night stands. Trust is the most potent aphrodesiac.
As for the ladies, a fella needs to know that you're not on the make--that he is not just another candidate that you're trying on for size. If that is what you're doing, don't be surprised if you're treated like the woman who is dancing for the dollar.
But, seriously, I really don't understand why folks of both genders feel the need to bash each other. We're different, and both should understand that and learn to enjoy it. Vive la difference!
Just for the record...I wasn't around for vaudville or the follies, but I did have a bit part in a production of Funny Girl.
;-)
As the name implies"common man".
It doesn't imply anything. I'm quite proud to be a common man. I haven't been to a strip club in years, but the front row is generally preferable to hiding in the back.
I never hide in the back...don't have a need to go to Strip Clubs have more than my share of Entertainment at home, and moral values are not a constant in the population at any given time in history....if sitting in a room full of Ladies who sell their bodies to the highest bidder is what turns you on, go for it. We are the sum total of what we have learned at home , in school and in Society at large. If one has not gleaned a moral compass by the time you are of age to watch a stripper in a club ,then that is who you are.
So....you're implying that stripping is immoral?
And from what great highground do you intend to preach or base this from?
To quote Ron White
Because if you've seen one woman naked...
You want to see the rest of em!
The problem with the comments that women are making about men is the same problem with the comments men are making about women; namely, both are projecting their life experiences on all people. Humans are more complex than that. No rule can define a man or a women . Each person has his own personality. In short, not all men are sex-crazy, nor are all women of a low sex drive.
Why are women taking the money and taking off their clothes ?
You can't blame men for your actions ,especially when so many are willing to do it.
If it was a real issue it would stop, but obviously money is more important to some than values.
I don't think we need to blame anyone. Men are willing to pay for sexual related stuff and women are aware and occasionally exploit it.
If women didn't condone it , it wouldn't happen.
The " victim " role doesn't work , can't be a victim when you charge for your services .
Jai-
Thats true. Those women know exactly what they are doing. Some even have regulars that spend whole paychecks on them.
Like I said, I don't see the need to blame anyone.
Men are by nature attracted to women hence the attraction to one swing butt ass naked around a pole.
Women enjoy showing these goods because men are dumb enough to pay them for this pole swinging, for something most could get for free if they met the right freaky ass girl.
As a hetero man, I never had a real need to go to strip clubs despite how lonely I've been most of my life.
It's actually kinda pathetic if you think about it. Guy ain't gettin' any so he has to crawl himself to some dirty bar and pay to see something which is an illusion.
As for women attacking men, well, I can say a lot about how women are not the mega-perfect creatures they brag about. Women use men as trophies. They choose their man on criteria like dancing ability, looks, social status, money, and other trivial stuff. Honesty, respect, love, all that $#!+ they talk about, blah blah blah?? LMAO. Liars. Add that women think they are goddesses whose words are divine and cannot be challenged in any way and that many women are extremely arrogant... well... maybe watching the strippers ain't that bad an option LOL.
So Why Are So Many Men Paying Women to Take off Their Clothes?
Because it's fun.
Why do people pay to go to the beach when it's sunny? Why do people pay to ski on slopes? Why do people pay to have birthday cake at their birthday parties?
The answer is: because it's fun.
Let's not over analyze this, okay? Fun things are fun. People will pay money to have fun. Strippers are fun.
I don't think it could be simpler. I'm a healthy man with many healthy relationships. I've always had positive male role models, and healthy relationships with women. My wife and I have a great relationship (emotionally, physically, and romantically) and a beautiful daughter. And I enjoy going to strip clubs from time to time.
Again, why? Because it's fun.
If you don't get it, you don't get. That's not a problem. I don't understand why people like to jog or run marathons but I don't try to label them or explain it away. It just doesn't seem like any fun to me, and I leave it at that. Some people like certain things, some people like other things. That's enough explanation for me.
After reading some of the other comments, I should also add that before I married I didn't have a problem meeting/getting women. And also, my wife is still quite attractive, and I'm attracted to her, moreso than ever after our child was born.
It's not about compensating for something, not for some of us.
It's about fun.
Like I said, if you don't get it, you don't get it.
Phenomenal Post!
Everyone wants to see some deep social or psychological component to something they obviously don't understand at all.
I've visited my fair share of gentlemen's clubs, around the country, and the fact is it's entertainment. It's isn't seedy and vile, it's a girl with looks and talent, selling a product based upon her performance and effect on the market.
Stripper's making $10,000 in a night don't seem like victims of society to me, they seem like beautiful business geniuses that know the market and work it with enthusiasm.
Realistic people know that it's a business, and the girl gets paid to titillate and flirt, and get partially or fully nude.
They make money, they get treated with respect (and often adoration), they set the rules and enforce them. They have all of the power in the exchange.
It isn't always a road bar with drifters and low-lives wasting time between prison terms, it's guys having fun, and paying women huge sums of money to play their part and play it well.
I have 3 g/f's I know who strip at local strip clubs in Portland, OR where I live near (Has the most strip club's per capita in the country). They have no problem with it... have b/fs.. and pull around 80-100k under the table a year. They don't feel like they are the victim at all. I even know a guy who is straight.. that strips at a club for women.. and for gay men.. and pulls in about the same each year as well.. and has a g/f. If they don't have a problem with it.. and chose to do so.. then nobody else should have a problem with it.
You get it.
I knew someone here would back me up. And your description of a visit to a club couldn't be more accurate. The perception is far and away much much worse than the reality.
guys think of the basic and women think of the complications from the above. ahhh sighh Jorge you haven't met the right lady yet. here's hoping that special one comes your way soonest ....the saying is that there's someone special somewhere..mine grew up 85 miles south of me...sighhhh took us awhile but we did find each other. Thank goodness he knew it right away.
"Umm ... Cuz they're naked and we saw boobies."
Yeah, I'm going with that argument.
I have to give yankee an A+ , it's the whole repression thing and the creation of a unnatural or false civility.
However, the successful management of hormones is also a repression of natural urges and constitutes an unnatural (false) civility. This male hormonal management is an advantage to those who repress or control natural urges but these adolescent urges can regress at a later point in development and manifest into abnormal behavior.
In other words, I agree with yankee except I don't believe male maturity is accomplished by managing hormones or "urges". There is no "successful mastery of masculinity", only the appearance of, or unnatural male civility or sophistication.
As for why women won't dance naked for free...uhh...no clue. (it's probably complicated).
Because men like to see naked women? Thats my guess.
And I say let them. If there are women willing to take their clothes off for money, let people pay. At that goes for men too. Im also in favor of legalized prostitution. If people are willing to take money for sex, people should be allowed to do it. Who is it really hurting anyway?
If there are women who want to make their ass clap and turn tricks for a few bucks, I say have at it. Leave the strippers alone. They arent doing anything but trying to make a living, and Id rather they do that then be completely dependent on taxpayer handouts.
There are a lot of women out there I would pay to put more clothes on becuase what I can see is disgusting!
Do women really want to turn men into women? I find that as soon as that happens and the woman gets what she wants she starts looking around for a "man". I'm not talking Neanderthal, but certainly not a woman either. After all, if a woman wants a woman, there's room for that. I know plenty of women that have gay friends, complain about their boyfriends, and yet, for some reason, continue to date straight men.
More from the article:
In her April 2009 New York Times article, "Dude, You've Got Problems," journalist and author, Judith Warner, describes the recent suicides of two young men after being bullied at school, taunted, and called "gay."
The fast route for guys to "prove" they're not gay is to show that they're tough, that they're not weak, that they don't back down -- whether on the playground, the bedroom, or the boardroom. Warner states, "Being called a 'fag,' you see, actually has almost nothing to do with being gay. It's really about showing any perceived weakness or femininity... It's what being called a 'girl' used to be, a generation or two ago." Though the paradigm is shifting slightly, gender expectations for young boys and men are more heightened than ever.
As author Lindsay Beyerstein comments, "strip clubs are just a symptom of much larger inequities. If they were all eliminated tomorrow, the net effect on women's liberation would be approximately nil. It's not like men would suddenly respect women more." And it's not like men would instantly have masculinity figured out.
And it's not like men would instantly have masculinity figured out.
Men do have masculinity figured out, women just don't like it.
Loretta, masculinity is not something you figure out...it just is.
You can't change it, you can't sugar coat it...well you can but under the sugar...there it is again.
It's nothing for men to be ashamed of although many try to subdue or mask the outward apperance.
If you want to understand men, stop penalizing them for being themselves.
I think the majority of men have a handle on sex and what it is (gay and straight).
They know what they want, the problem is - how are they going to get it from females.
Gay men have an advantage...they both know what sex is and they know what they want. There is not too much gaming going on, they are just worried about the general public. I have been approached by gay men and they have no problem letting me know what they want.( I am straight but extremely good looking). Women and gays WANT me badly.
Women play so many games it can make a straight man's head spin...hence-- STRIP CLUBS, MASSAGE PARLORS, ESCORTS...get the picture??
Women are very complicating when it comes to sex...I know they can't help it but I can't figure it out.
Some guys think they have it figured out but they don't... they are guys like yankee who thinks by engaging in the sexual games of women and conquering , they have achieved "mastery of masculinity"but in reality, they have launched their masculinity down stream.
Got one question:
How come all the authors that seem to be 'authorities' on men are women?
You never see a man wanting to know about why men like naked women.
strip clubs are just a symptom of much larger inequities
Total bull@!$%#.
How come all the authors that seem to be 'authorities' on men are women?
That's because they are not.
Women and men are equally as brain dead when it comes to this. Stone cold brain dead.
Strip clubs are honest and so are the majority of the women who work there.
Men know what they want when they get there and the women are honest about what they want in return.
How come all the authors that seem to be 'authorities' on men are women?
Haha, good question. I'm a man myself and there are things about men that I simply cannot explain, for example why many of us are prone to engaging in stupid stuff that women would wisely shun. I sure did my own share as a teenager but cleaned up my act pretty much as an adult.
And speaking of stupid stuff, aren't most bank robbers male?
rickace--
yup, i think they are. just like men are most likely to shoot someone, but women are more likely to poison.
Along those lines have you ever seen a mens magazine with one of those stupid surveys, like "25 ways to know your woman hates cooking bacon nude?' WTF!!!
Along those lines have you ever seen a mens magazine
I never read them because nothing in them interests me. That's not a statement about my masculinity, it's a statement about what's in the magazine and how little I connect to it.
I've heard tales from women about how stupid many men are, and any guy who'd find "25 ways to know your woman hates cooking bacon nude?" interesting is probably one of them haha.
Oh yeah, and speaking of dumb things we do, men seem to be leading the pack of collecting Darwin Awards. Most Darwins are awarded posthumously, but not all. When I was a kid my crew had a health respect for "ash cans" and M-80s. If a firecracker goes off in your hand it hurts like hell and *might* cause an injury for an ER to treat. Ash cans and M-80s were things you wanted to be far away from when the detonated. This kid played with fire.
I hear you man--
Its like famous last words: "Hey, y'all watch this!!"
Its like famous last words: "Hey, y'all watch this!!"
Where I come from, it's: "Hey, y'all. Hold my beer and watch this!" ;-}
Here's an article that may interest you too. I'll tell you right up front that the guy it's about, photographer Terry Richardson, creeps me out, not from what the article says but from his photos that are included. That page is not safe for work.
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