Girl, 9, and father shot dead by 'anti-immigrant vigilantes' as she begged for life | Mail Online

This is unbelievable. Under the pretense of protecting the border this woman's crew entered a private home and executed a child, with the real goal of robbing the family for drugs and jewels. Some people can justify anything with their prejudices or their religion. Sick. All of us should make an issue of this, not just the immigrant population. I'd love to see the parents of the girl killed in Tucson at this trial to bring attention to it. Sick people mowing down children with their guns all deserve the same attention and outcome.

This must be that "well regulated militia" the Right is always talking about.

/sarc

This little girl was the same age as my children. I am sickened by this.

How tragic. Apparently the rioting and revolution over in Egypt and the importance of oil has buried this story.

This is just so sad.

RIP

What kind of crazy--ass group is thus woman a part of? Unreal.

------------------------------------------

douglasq--

She is not of the Minutemen group/project, if you are referring to that "militia"

Hi Casa Esperanza.I just wanted to applaud your speaking out over the dignity of the immigrant community.I hope that you will soon post an article covering the fact that the Valley Of The Sun,Phoenix specifically,where I grew up has been the kidnapping capitol of the US,maybe the world.Also,second to none in home invasions and drug murders.Id like to see it cover the fact that these horrific,crimes and acts of mayhem are almost exclusively perpetrated against the immigrant communities by immigrants themselves against immigrants,but also noting that often times other groups including completely innocent children are caught up and killed in the ensuing violence and gun play when the criminals get the address wrong or some other problem arises out of the criminal activities of "undocumented immigrants".Perhaps you could sway such an article to be published by Mail On line out of Britain.As Im sure they might be interested in some of these revealing facts too.Anyway,I just wanted to extend my full support of any uncompromised and unbiased reflections you may offer on the subject.

Glad to see this story getting SOME exposure, what a sad commentary on our society that the execution of a 9 year old girl goes without comment in the main stream press. Wonder what the response would be had it been a blonde haired blue eyed girl from the suburbs?

Valley Of The Sun,Phoenix specifically,where I grew up has been the kidnapping capitol of the US,maybe the world.Also,second to none in home invasions and drug murders.

Even though Arizona has some of the slackest gun laws in the country???....unbelievable.....I thought slack gun laws REDUCED crime....isn't the chant " a well armed public is a safe public"????......evidently not.

This is the old south. Arizona is the Mississippi of the old south. This the bombing of a church bring the death of four young innocent girls. Here there is one innocent young girl. This vigilante group just needed hoods. This is the old west. The will run their patrols on the death of young innocent girl. I cannot believe that such hate and ignorance still exists. It will interesting to see if the verdict is similar to the verdict in the Emmett Tills trial.

Radio Free America--

No it actually isn't just an old south tactic specifically. It is a gang banging, it is a mafia, it is a organized crime, it is any criminal tactic of get rid of ALL witnesses. It happens all the time.

Wonder what the response would be had it been a blonde haired blue eyed girl from the suburbs?

It would have been front page news across the nation, especially if the home invaders were not white. (ie; Hispanic or other minority)

What a truly horrific story.

This must be that "well regulated militia" the Right is always talking about.

I'm sorry but I don't hear anybody supporting the killing of a nine year old girl. Please point to me where the "Right" is doing so.

I thought slack gun laws REDUCED crime....isn't the chant " a well armed public is a safe public"?

You must of missed this part in the article

Desperately wounded, she dragged herself through the house to find her husband's gun and exchanged fire with her assailant, who police say is Jason Bush.

Had she not had a weapon then the assailants more than likely would of killed her and gotten away with the crime. What is "unbelievable" is that you would want to take away this womans right to defend herself. Maybe before you shoot off your mouth you'll read the whole story.

I hope that you will soon post an article covering the fact that the Valley Of The Sun,Phoenix specifically,where I grew up has been the kidnapping capitol of the US,maybe the world.

Not according to the FBI and any other Law enforcement agency in the world. There is no data to support your statement.

Also,second to none in home invasions and drug murders.Id like to see it cover the fact that these horrific,crimes and acts of mayhem are almost exclusively perpetrated against the immigrant communities by immigrants themselves against immigrants,

Again neither the FBI or any other Law enforcement agency have any statistics to support this assertion.

Totally disgusting, vigilantes no, petty thief's, bullies and murders looking for a excuse

I read about this home invasion back in 2009. The way it was spun was it was a mistake and the miniutemen were tracking a drug smuggler and they found them in that house. They did not mention a child at that time. Huh, kind of wonder what the press is thinking and for who they are protecting....

Senior: I bet you came across dozens of those headless corpses too. Sorry, but I'll take the word of those who actually enforce the law over some immigrant hater posting his hate across the internet.

JB -- Sorry, but you do not understand the point. When the speech is ratchetted up to a vitritol level some people who may be futher to the right (and even the left) may take it upon themselves to go further than the intent.

The point is that I have heard many on the far right talk about taking their country back -- from who exactly? The illegal Mexican immigrants? Because when the story of the illegal immigrants working for a sub contractor at a Wal-Mart in GA four years broke four years ago, guess what FOX and friends focused on -- yeeeep, the US-Mexican border. And yet the "illegals" that were actually working at the Wal-Mart were Polish/German. So why did Fox choose to picture the US-Mexican border? Because as O'Reilly stated, the US is becoming too brown and his white Christians viewers needed to start having more Christian babies to offset the "browning of America" by these invaders.

The bottom line is that heated racist rhetoric from the right does far more damage than from the liberal treehuggers and these heinous murders proves this.

I wonder if the right is looking at these people who committed these crimes as sick and not the homegrown terrorists that they are?

So you don't have any evidence to support your assertion "Valley Of The Sun,Phoenix specifically,where I grew up has been the kidnapping capitol of the US,maybe the world." and you reject any objective agency that contradicts your assertion. It is not about feelings it is about objective facts that Valley of the Sun is NOT the kidnapping capital of the US or the World. Your personal experiences are irrelevant the data does not support your assertion.

Phoenix, I assume you are from Az, so I do not know why you are ignorant on this subject.

With 368 reported kidnappings in 2008, Phoenix has swiftly become the U.S. kidnapping capital. Abductions have become such a persistent problem that police created a special squad of anti-kidnapping officers.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30646995/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

Made sure to use MSNBC so you wouldn't attack the site as a conservative rag. Of course now I'm guessing you will back off and say you meant to only attack "of the world" and ignore the fact that he said maybe.

And remember, this is reported crimes, many of those kidnapped by coyotes and held for ransom are not reported.

I cannot believe that such hate and ignorance still exists.

It always exists, it never goes away, its in some of us, this evil, the ignorance, the incoherency, the fear and sickness that makes them mean and self righteous like this.

Sadly, it seems to be in humanity. We are capable of getting the better of it but it is also capable of getting the better of us.

The problem is we need a few hundred, if not million, years to evolve away from it. The joke is its what we need to evolve away from and the thing that is likely to kill us before we do.

Ha friggin ha...

douglasq

“This must be that "well regulated militia" the Right is always talking about”.

Your commit here is totally uncalled for, first; prove these people are of “the right” as you put it or even a political group; you spout hate that is equal to that of these people who committed this horrific crime.

This bunch is not a militia; they are cold blooded murders and should receive the death penalty for the crime.

I put part of the blame for this kind of action on the government for not enforcing immigration laws, this sort of thing was bound to happen sooner or later by one side or the other, and it is sickening.

I believe that before our government moves on this subject we will see a lot more of this from both sides of the issue

This is not the way to handle immigration no matter what the government does or does not do; the cold blooded murder of innocent people is a crime to everyone everywhere.

How many minutemen are liberals? This woman was a member of that group of idiots running around the desert with their guns. And if they were just cold blooded murderers with no connection to the minutemen or other right wing groups, how could this action be the fault of the government for not enforcing immigration laws? Little inconsistent there, pal.

Pardon me but what a crock, these people are the logical step children of the religous politcal right and that sure as heck includes the gun lobby and second amendment, succession, AIP, militias, anti-government is the enemy and so many other various factions and arms of the 'right" trying in anyway to avoid parentage is ridiculous if not out and out cowardly and dishonest.

Where did you all think a culture war would lead? To peace?

Step up, be proud, they struck a blow, hit their targets, used those second amendment rights for a remedy like real american patriots wahoo.

Home invasions, robberies, murder and so on happen all over the country in every city. The only reason one would think it's happening only to their race is because that is all they want to see. If you live in a predominantly Mexican neighborhood, most of the crimes you see will be perpetrated against Mexicans. Same with the black neighborhoods, Vietnamese neighborhoods and white neighborhoods. Criminals are opportunists. If they think you got something of value that they want then they are going to try and get it from you regardless of what your race is. But there is one thing that is true, abductions, they happen all over the country but in the southern part of the United States the rate is far higher than the rest of the country. Most of the abductions are mostly of young women being sold into sexual slavery. Being near the U.S. border makes it easy for them to get away!

Investigators said that she was originally a member of the anti-immigrant Minuteman Project but left to form a more extreme breakaway group.

Forde allegedly funded her by group by robbing the houses of suspected drug dealers. When she reportedly proposed one such raid to two potential accomplices, they phoned the FBI - who did nothing because they believed the suggestion was too ludicrous to be true.

Hmm... Guess some people here need to post retractions - unless they like being liars...?

It's not surprising that the anti-hispanic media in this country is not covering this story. They are the ones that whipped up all that hate in the first place that led to this. This blood is on their hands too... why would they want to cover a story drenced in their own guilt?

I put part of the blame for this kind of action on the government for not enforcing immigration laws, this sort of thing was bound to happen sooner or later by one side or the other, and it is sickening.

Are you @!$%#ing kidding me? How is the government to blame for some right wing (further right than the Minutemen) sickos shooting a 9-yr. old in a home they broke into?

Zip, it's been an ideal wedge issue. Never mind WHY there is an influx of undocumented workers, let's just demonize them while we're using their labor.

Working and middle class Americans have fallen for the ruse.

If the "powers that be" wanted to put an end to undocumented immigration, it would stop. but there is too much upside to keep it going...

1. dividing the people for political gain

2. inexpensive form of labor to depress wages all around

3. distraction from the root causes of undocumented immigration

4. distraction from the overarching issues of globalism and class warfare.

“Forde allegedly funded her by group by robbing the houses of suspected drug dealers.”

Similar to the strategy that some white supremacists were using to fund they’re movement in the late 80’s and 90’s-except that they also robbed banks.

Phoenix-77,I dont look to government sources for their take anymore.

Do the work,post them here if you feel you must,but dont give us any BS from PEW or something like that.Nothing from AZ Republic or the New Times,Alternet,Huff.Po. or their ilk.Straight statistical data directly from linkable,official websites from the goverments agencies of your choice.

How do you reconcile those two things, SeniorTokarev. You don't look to government sources, but you want proof from them?

Wow.

BLOGER-486140

It is a little surprising that this isn't getting more attention. It is up to the Immigrant population of the country to demand this be a issue.

It is up to the IMMIGRANT population of the country to demand this be an issue??? It should be up to the ENTIRE population. What has America come to?

when most people disagree with your policies and politic they won't give you money, and that cause will die or start committing crimes to fund the project. This sucks no matter where you stand on the politispectrum.

If we keep voting this story up enough, maybe people will take notice. I clipped this to a few more groups, and shared it on Twitter.

This woman and her accomplices don't deserve the mercy of the death penalty. They should live for the rest of their lives hearing that poor girl's last pleas!

Hi Casa Esperanza.I just wanted to applaud your speaking out over the dignity of the immigrant community.I hope that you will soon post an article covering the fact that the Valley Of The Sun,Phoenix specifically,where I grew up has been the kidnapping capitol of the US,maybe the world.Also,second to none in home invasions and drug murders.Id like to see it cover the fact that these horrific,crimes and acts of mayhem are almost exclusively perpetrated against the immigrant communities by immigrants themselves against immigrants,but also noting that often times other groups including completely innocent children are caught up and killed in the ensuing violence and gun play when the criminals get the address wrong or some other problem arises out of the criminal activities of "undocumented immigrants".Perhaps you could sway such an article to be published by Mail On line out of Britain.As Im sure they might be interested in some of these revealing facts too.Anyway,I just wanted to extend my full support of any uncompromised and unbiased reflections you may offer on the subject.

Why don't you post an article about that? Are you incapable? And how would this in anyway justify what these people did? How is it relevant to what these people did to this family?

Abolish Taxes,if I put under my name and picture "Immigrants Rights Support Network" and my name is Casa Esperanza,I'll do just that.Till then,mind your own busisness and dont tell me what to do.Howd that be?

kshark

She is not of the Minutemen group/project, if you are referring to that "militia"

You are quite correct that the Minuteman Project and the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps are two different groups. HOWEVER, they are related in that both groups were co-founded by Chris Simcox. As for Shawna Forde and the MCDC, I suggest it is quite a feat to be kicked out of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps in the first place. Anyone who hasn't previously heard of these groups, (and Chris Simcox as well,) would do well to do a little reading on them. Fortunately, the MCDC was "officially" disbanded in March 2010.

We have quite the collection of "characters" here in Arizona; Laine Lawless, a friend/acquaintance of Forde's, is another fine upstanding person of particular note that should be read up on as well.

Thank you British Press and Newsvine

Oh yes gun totting racist have been flocking to Arizona and we want you to LEAVE. The basic people of Arizona are not bigots and racist. The source is obvious...rich racisit retirees and media driven, infamed hate from Foxx News and CNN's Lou Dobbs.

I want everyone to know that Tucson was not like this before. It started with Lou Dobbs targeting Illegals in Arizona around 2003 and has been escalating ever since. Yes, this trial has been going on even while Giffords was shot and Christina Greene was killed. Even while I faced down a two gun totting "whatevers" in front of the grocery store to buy the morning milk when John McCain and Sarah Palin came to town. Its not just intimidation. They murder people too.

This is why I have urged people who are Liberals or Leftist to arm themselves to protect themselves and their families from these vigilantees. Liberals are like sitting ducks. They care, have a conscience and what to save animals and stuff. I'll take a nice liberal any day over a gun totting right wing hater.

Tell us more about the two "gun totting" "whatevers" you faced down in front of the grocery store JanCanDo.My interest is piqued.

It was the shifty eye look you know back and forth back and forth until he asked what in the heck are you looking at lady. Now with his attention towards her she looks away in a defeated posture, huh nothing I was intrigued by your shiny guns mister.

Yeah I just got them today @ your local wholesaler, pretty nice aren't they? Well I don't really believe in carrying guns and stuff. That's ok he said I'll carry them for ya. Don't ya worry none lady no-one will be bothering no-one here today!

A simple Googleof Shawna Forde will show you it has received alot of press in the US.

Its unfair to the US news media to state that only the British are covering this case. For instance, Google informs me that Anderson Cooper is also covering this case in depth.

At least one local paper had a lengthy story on the trial.

And at least one TV station had a story on the trial.

And this attention from so-called "mainstream media" isn't new. I found one article from an Everett, WA newspaper dated December, 2009, which gives a lot of background details.

The point is that I have heard many on the far right talk about taking their country back -- from who exactly?

For me it was from the elitist pricks in Washington.

I wonder if the right is looking at these people who committed these crimes as sick and not the homegrown terrorists that they are?

I look at them as murderers. They have no morality. They are no different than the Nazi's that pulled the handle on the showers. Essentially, they are evil.

*********************************************************************

Why was this collapsed? Nothing inflammatory or attacking an individual.

Define, in your opinion

the elitist pricks in Washington.

I'm already quite confident that in your opinion it would only include those on the left side of the aisle.

I would include almost anyone who has served in federal office in the last 50 years. (anyone who has voted for crap that is not specifically in the constitution)

Have a little more faith. Not all of them. It's just that those who have meant well were vastly overpowered by those who cared most for themselves. We'll fix it. Have faith and take action.

Are the Minutemen anti immigrant or anti ILLEGAL alien? Two completely different groups of people.

Not that the difference justifies this heinous crime...

McSpocky, comment # 1.36:

Way to go, McSpocky! I just wish I knew how to get this into the network news media, but in such a way that Arizonans won’t be unnecessarily forced to bear an undeserved ‘cross’. Only the principals should bear the notoriety, not Arizona.

I just wish I knew how to get this into the network news media, but in such a way that Arizonans won’t be unnecessarily forced to bear an undeserved ‘cross’

That's something you have to start working on at home dude. Believe me, there's plenty of help out here but you gotta start helping yourself out first.

mind your own busisness and dont tell me what to do.Howd that be?

AH I see, you like to tell other people what to do, but you don't like others suggesting that you do the same. Isn't that hypocritical.

Using Newsvine to get people to "take notice?" You'll be just as effective shouting it out your front door. Newsvine's credibility is not what it once was and it's getting worse.

Let's not elevate or delude ourselves. We're just big frogs in our own little pond...

Newsvine's credibility is not what it once was and it's getting worse.

But don't you think we can change that?

Highly unlikely, given the current biases, agendas and restraints that are being imposed. Objectivity and Newsvine are not synonymous and haven't been for quite some time.

If Newsvine is to become credible, it needs to make critical changes in direction and personnel.

Until then, it is no more than an insignificant, disregarded collection of fortified Groupthink.

"Not that there's anything wrong with that"

You're right that it's something that's gone bad over time, but personally I think the biggest mistake of Newsvine and MSNBC is having MSNBC articles directly linked to Newsvine comments. The Newsvine community seeded articles attract much more intelligent debate. Not that I'm an overly intelligent guy or anything. Just my opinion.

#1.57 here here Stand up,speak out.

What the hell is your problem Abolish Taxes?Its not like you listen anyway...........

Here here, that the whole NV thing has gone haywire or that I'm just not an intelligent sort of guy?

Sorry Stand up,speak out.I was wholeheartedly agreeing with you when you said what you did about directly posting articles from MSNBC : )

What the hell is your problem Abolish Taxes?Its not like you listen anyway...........

No, you obviously do not listen or you simply do not like the fact that I pointed out your hypocrisy.

Abolish Taxes,if I cared I would ask how.I dont tell people what to do here.I tell people how I feel.IGNORE.......

Haha, I love it when they can't handle being called out on their hypocrisy while they rail about the hypocrisy of others, and can only stick their fingers in their ears........LALALA..... I can't hear you. What is it they say these days? Oh yea, pwned.

Senior Tokarev

I apologize for the amount of time it has taken me to get back to you. It literally take 15 minutes to load this page and scroll a bit. I have great difficulty posting and editing here recently so I've been baking bread instead.

I clarified the Guns-n-Grocery store comments here: Breaking News: Gabrielle Giffords Shot #c50846608 Comment 51.2 and the answer an 51.3 I can't get links to work either but this article is on Newsvine.

Thats the perils of trying to hold a conversation on the internet JanCanDo.I understand.Its just when you said that,I have envisioned two law abiding citizens practicing their rights under the 2nd Amendment as I do,and being accosted by someone who doesnt appreciate those rights with some kind of verbal assault.Thats happened to me and I consider the outcome a testament to why we need the 2nd Amendment in the first place!Please tell me that wasnt you.........

Ok Jan,I was able to go to your comments about the Guns N Groceries.You know Ive been in the gun culture since Ive been knee high to a grasshoppers eye and grew up here in AZ.I have to tell you there are pretty much two instances where a bright blue holster might be worn in my experience.One would be training gear,realistic,but non functional guns and gear come in a variety of colors including blue for this purpose.I cant say Ive ever seen a holster that color even for training though.The other instance might be for whats called airsoft or paintball.The airsoft guns,which fire plastic or aluminum BBs can have very realistic appearances and are quite common these days.They might sell gear for these in various colors.The paintball guns look more fantastical,something you might see in a Star Wars type movie or something.They have gear in various colors also,some of it even bright neon.That said,a bright blue, two gun holster like you describe sounds bizzar to me for someone to be walking around with anywhere.I dont want to sound condescending or discount what youve said,but I dont think what you saw was what you think it was.JanCanDo,you shouldnt be afraid to grocery shop whenever you want,wherever you want.But we live in a country where we have the right to keep and bear arms.In AZ this is common.Wherever you are,not everyone who has a gun should have it,but that is also true in more places around the world that dont have any 2nd Amendment like we do.More so even.We have the 2nd Amendment so the good guys can legally carry a gun,not the bad guys.You know,Ive had people from other states and even right here in AZ walk up and ask me about the gun I carry,or the holster I carry it in and Im always happy to talk to them,and they rarely walk away with a bad feeling about our 2nd Amendment.Its there so you dont have to live in fear JanCanDo.I hope you can see that.

Sorry Stand up,speak out.I was wholeheartedly agreeing with you when you said what you did about directly posting articles from MSNBC : )

Gracias Senior

I am literally sickened to my stomach by this story. This happened in 2009. How come I have never read about it anywhere in US ?

These kind of bastards who can kill a 9 year old girl in cold blood deserves a lynching crowd. Toss them to us and let us rip them apart one part at a time.

Quartered and drawn would be a nice way to punish them.

This happened in 2009. How come I have never read about it anywhere in US ?

Because you don't pay attention? I've read about it a few times.

Rhep - I spend a lot of time on MSN and newsvine everyday. I try to pay attention. In addition i subsbcribe to Times, Reader's digest, Newsweek and ummm ...Esquire (;-)

No. I definitely pay attention but this story has escaped my notice because i suspect it was covered up by the main stream media and did not get the play it deserved on the national scene.

The mainstream media reports a story and then moves on to the next one. If this had been reversed, and the victims American citizens and the killers illegals, it would have been on Fox daily. The right wing blogs would have beat the drum on this endlessly. Fox uses news for political purposes.

Huffington Post

Daily Mail

MSNBC

CNN

Fox

:)

She is a white extremist bent on protecting our boarders. For profit. If that was a smugglers house these guys would not have gotten width in 100feet.of the place. I think they were planning on robbing them. Shooting everybody was cold blooded murder. I agree CJ these people should get the death penalty x10.

Because she was "taking our country back" as all the conservative pundits keep screaming for them to do.

Because by taking the life of two people, the government did not have to pay any of her taxpayers money to bus them back to Mexico.

Natalia-996117

Because she was "taking our country back" as all the conservative pundits keep screaming for them to do.

I’m a conservative, and I find the act an abomination just as I find your commitment to be, these people should receive the death penalty for murder.

Trying to place the blame on conservatives only make you what they are, wrong thinking and acting.

Jim: There are degrees of conservatism, just as there are slightly liberal all the way to radically liberal in the other camp- and these criminals were indeed ultra-conservatives:

Investigators said that she was originally a member of the anti-immigrant Minuteman Project but left to form a more extreme breakaway group.

Members claim that it is their civil duty to protect the Mexican border with weapons as the authorities are unable to do so.

As I am unhappy being tarred with the radical brush, I am sure that you have nothing in common with this scum, but sadly, it is the truth and this is what happens when you feed the crazies on hate and violence- it gives them tacit approval to turn another's harsh words into their own vicious actions.

Oh come on people! Ease up! Nobody told them to do what they did! They did it out of their own greed. Only god knows how many others homes were invaded and robbed by these pieces of @!$%# and gotten away with it. The only reason why it's on the news now is because the woman shot back and survived to tell the tale. If she were killed we would not be talking about this article today because it would have been buried in the back pages. These idiots are just trying to use " defending our country" as an excuse to condone their actions. Just like the Islamist use " honor killings" as an excuse to justify murdering their wives or daughters for being too westernized.

Here is the skinny on Shawna Forde:

Shawna Forde

Shawna Forde (born December 6, 1967 (age 43)^[4]), of Buena Vista, Arizona,^[5] is an activist who had been closely associated with the anti-immigration group, Minutemen Civil Defense Corps even though she exhibited "unstable" behavior, later formed a splinter group (Militiamen American Defense or M.A.D.) to pursue her political goals. Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik alleged Forde to have planned and ordered the murders of Flores.

Looks like Shawna broke away from one group and developed HER OWN vigilante group:

Shawna and her gang of thugs actually went into the home then left for awhile, came back to shoot the family: so that is how the Mom got to call 911!

My god, Shawna and her gang

are no different than the Mafia coming for money you owe them!

Are we so cold??

Sometimes I think, yes, yes we are just that cold as a nation.

I'm wondering just how these people figured that this family were "illegal" aliens and "drug dealers". What was their justification to believe so? The story does not give the victim's citizenship or immigration status, so I am reluctant to make an assumption there. They could just as easily have been citizens as (il)legal aliens. Gosh knows we have plenty of citizens of Hispanic ancestry that have been citizens for several generations. Particularly in our southern border states.

I cant speak for the rest of the nation,but here in AZ we all heard plenty about it.It happened quite some time back.There has been a lot on the plate of AZ and our nation since then.Here in AZ,I feel the story and this poor little girl got as much of her due as anybody else.Rehashing the sadness here for a political agenda is hardly adding to what she deserves.Make no mistake,that is what this article is about.

Sadly I don't think legal or illegal or even citizen status meant anything in this case. These people wanted to find a way to fund their organization, heard a (false) rumor that there were drugs/money lying around this house and decided to take said money/drugs as a means of obtaining said funding. The motives may have been blanketed in the nice trappings of stopping drug trafficking/illegal immigration but the reality is that this is no better than cold-blooded robbery and murder. In murdering this man and little girl they are no better than the gangs they purport to fight.

I agree, ST.

We can weep and cry over a 9 year old girl shot down by a maniac with a grudge against a Congresswoman but somehow we cannot find tears for a 9 year old girl shot down by a renegade militia?? Really?? Are we so cold??

lilgremlin -- no, just so far to the right that one thinks they can do whatever they want to someone different and get away with it.

It is being talked about because these anti-immigration activists are now on trial. Senior Tokarev has not problem trying to make political points with largely made up stories of kidnapping and other crimes in Arizona, but he has a problem with a real example of what violent anti-immigrant rhetoric can bring on.

Nope -- I heard about this when it first happened. And they specifically went after this family's house because they knew they were Mexican nationals.

I just love the way the right tries to justify these heinous racist killers as something much more accpetable. That is also a tragedy, since it shows how racist the right is.

What happened to following your Bible and loving thy neighbor?

I dont believe you ever addressed "what violent anti immigrant rhetoric can bring on" ,with me at least Paddymurph.I would have remembered that.I would appreciate you not putting words in mouth or telling others about Ideas I may or may not have in my head.Thanks Paddymurph.

SeniorTokarev, comment # 5.2:

With all due respect: HOW can a nine-year old child possibly have gotten “as much of her due as anybody else”?!

Please…“say it ain’t so…”

And as far as the drug killing and kidnapping, we (the US) need to take the blame for that as well.

It was on the news last night about a man in Phoenix who purcahsed 20 assualt rifles from a local gun store, then later that day he purchased another 20. The day before he had purchased another 20. On the purchase form, he indicated that the purchases were for "personal use" and when the ATF got involved they had traced other purchases to guns confiscated after a drug cartel gun battle in Mexico.

The bottom line is that AZ has too lenient gun laws that need to be regulated. Too many people are dying because someone got a gun they were not supposed to have access to.

Anybody else in the media Joe.Her murder got media coverage here in AZ when it happend.Plenty of voices raised and then like so many other stories in the media,it faded as other stories came about.Like I said,I cant speak for the rest of the nation.

Go back and read your post 1.5, and the one that followed it. with the false stories about Arizona being the Kidnap capital of the world. And didn't you post, "Rehashing the sadness here for a political agenda is hardly adding to what she deserves." So, you bring up false claims of out of control crime by illegal immigrants for a political purpose but decry those who bring up a real crime obviously motivated, in part, by anti-immigrant bias. I commented only on your words. I have not idea what ideas bounce around in your head that you do not share. Given what you do share, I really have no interest in learning what ideas you are uncomfortable sharing.

Then its settled Paddymurph,I'll put you on ignore for the baiting crap your pulling here and outright lies about the common knowledge of The valley where I grew up being the kidnapping capitol of the us and maybe the world and you can do whatever the hell you want.Fair enough?Too bad,thats how its gonna be.

ST that what you think? This article is political.
I bet your the same ilk that says the murderer of several people by one of your nutty citizens in Tucson was not politically motivated. I know you like it both ways.

However, the home invasion and murder by a known political extremist group is political. It is in court now, it anew phase of the story. The whole world is watching now so it won't be easy for AZ to let these killers go free..

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/article/2011/01/06/id/382109

There is a two gun limit, but not for "long" guns (usually hunting rifles) which is how these assault rifles are able to be sold in such big quantities. But, you know who is against any type of legislation to halt the multiple sales of this type of weapon --- the NRA!!!!!!

The NRA has no soul!!!!! They live off the blood money of the innocent just to ensure that they can make a buck!!!!

Jake,Im a citizen too.I dont have citizens.There are nutty citizens in every state of the union and plenty more world wide though.If you think I or most people here in AZ advocate murder or setting murderers free,then you should go somewhere else for your information or at least dont be so gullible.If can find so much to attack in what I say then plainly,you have a serious problem that I am not qualified to deal with.Get help man!

ST: Why should anyone believe what you post? You have no proof. And when others supply proof that what you post is false, you claim the FBI, DEA and all other law enforcement agencies who contradict your claim are lying. I do not think Jake is the one in need of help, here. Also, learn how to use the space bar. It is annoying to read your posts when they words all run together.

Paddymurph,I must have forgotten to hit the ignore button after I said I would.My bad.It wont happen again..........

Ignoring is apparently your only response to factual information that does not fit within your narrow views. Well, ignorance is bliss.

I admit,I peeked.My promise to you,this will be the last time.Paddymurph,nobody is twisting your arm.If you dont like what I say,you can say whatever you want in rebuttal.Thats what makes this country better than anywhere else.I dont care if you believe me or not.Thats the part you and several others are missing.I havent attacked anybody here.I havent even said anything contrary here.I told you and others my view on the ATF and other government agencies.Dont like em?Dont have a cow man.Unless of course you think my views might actually be influencing others here..........THEN RUN AND HIDE HA HA HA HA HA!

Influencing others to laugh in derision, perhaps.

SeniorTokarov, comment # 5.12:

Understood…let’s do what we can to keep this alive…make it go viral. For her, for Arizona, for the country… It ends with her.

Joe,I'm feeling ya.But reference directly above you here.Its blossomed into an ugly,stinky flower of death.It may go viral,but for all the wrong reasons.The area of my concerns now is my family,friends and my block.I come here to pass time and once in a while say my piece.Occasionally I laugh too.Its not going to end because the people who Ive ignored here today and their kind wont ever let that happen.They are the racists and the haters.They wont be happy until the next little girl or boy is killed and they can then spread more hatred,half truths,lies and racism,which inevitably snowballs into more strife.That's why I ignore em.I cant tell you what to do Joe.I don't want to.But here's my advice.Ignore em too.And live your life,love your family and friends and always say goodbye like you mean it every time.

The only lies posted here are yours about the "Valley" being the kidnapping capital of the world. I did not accuse you of being a racist. Don't know if you are or not. Did not post a single thing that cannot be proven, so no half-truths. And to suggest, from what I posted, that I would be happy is another child would die is beneath contempt. I do, however, share your concern for your family and friends.

From an article:

Tourists beware: in 2002, 2986 people were kidnapped, making it an average of 8 victims a day. 32 victims are non-Colombian citizens: Brazilians, Canadians, French, Italian, Lebanese and Spanish.

http://gosouthamerica.about.com/b/2003/09/18/colombia-kidnap-capital-of-the-world.htm

I don't think that Phoenix even comes close to this. FYI: any folks missing from AZ may have simply fled the rampant violence for more pleasant pastures!

You live here in AZ QuiteContrary?FYI,you should look up the definitions law enforcement use to define what is and what is not a kidnapping.FYI,all of the drophouses in which coyotes hold chickens for ransom under threat of death untill their families pay off the coyotes are filled with kidnapping victims.FYI,your example doesnt even come close to those numbers,and those are only the ones that get busted.And that doesnt even count CA,TX,NM and hell probably Fla. and NY. just AZ the kidnapping capitol of the US and maybe the world whether a bunch of racist,criminal enablers want to piss and moan about the truth or not those are facts.FYI get get a reality check.............

Chickens, really?

Thats what theyre called QuiteContrary.Honest Injun.Look I didnt mean to snap at you earlier by the way.Its just Ive been taking a lot of crap and been called a liar from people who wouldnt know the truth if it bit em in the ass.Here in AZ its been biting us all in the ass including the immigrants.

SeniorTokarev, comment # 5.24:

“…live your life,love your family and friends and always say goodbye like you mean it every time.”

Words to always live by pal. I ‘visit’ the ‘Vine’ for the same reasons you do. Some of the ‘neighbors’ sometimes my ‘ruffle my feathers the wrong way’ too but I’ve got an automatic ‘ignore’ button that’s been working pretty good, so far. And since the majority of the rest of the ‘Community’ is here for the same reasons as you and me-to learn a little more about ourselves and ‘everything else’-that makes it all worthwhile. As for the issue of the little girl and her family going viral the wrong way, you and me makes two and that’s a start to set, and keep, the record straight.

So long as we remember, nobody else can say they forgot. Good luck to you and yours always; see ya ‘round the ‘neighborhood’. :)

That's OK Senior, I am not in, nor from, AZ and honestly, have no intention of ever moving to the desert southwest- I'd look like a pork rind within a month- I need moisture LOL! But I have an interest concerning every State in our Great Union- we are all neighbors!

So because some CRIMINALS tried to cover themselves claiming to be minutemen we should be upset?

Well, that is novel. I was unaware that there was an Official Minutemen designation. That could be, of course, because ALL of the individuals claiming to be Minutemen are in reality nothing more than vigilantes, oh sorry, CRIMINALS who take the law into their own hands with a staggering arrogance that is inexcusable.

Shawna Forde, the head of the Minutemen American Defence group

So was she pretending to be the head of this group, or was it a pretend group?

maximillio--

Please read the whole article.

Investigators said that she was originally a member of the anti-immigrant Minuteman Project but left to form a more extreme breakaway group.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1350721/Girl-9-father-shot-dead-anti-immigrant-vigilantes-begged-life.html#ixzz1CNZiwQ1i

No- they were actually minutemen who just wanted to take things further. The botoom line is that if they weren't feed all the racist heated vitriol rhetoric about "take back our country" "lock and load (re-load)" "the browning of America by invaders must be stopped" they maybe would not have thought to cross over too far.

But they felt they were doing something that would make them heroes among their peers. Homegrown terrorists is what they are, not crazies with guns!!!!!!

Natalia-996117--

Uh no she was KICKED OUT of the Minutemen.

Given the fact one of the men involved WAS described as Mexican by the victims, your whole comment just fell apart.

This was a robbery that sadly ended in murder. Forde and her men were not going after illegals with this, they wanted to rob what they thought was a drug dealer for his money and supplies.

Kshark-

originally a member of the anti-immigrant Minuteman Project but left to form a more extreme breakaway group

Your own words- a quote of your quote and nowhere does it say she was kicked out, but "left to form..." do not try to repackage left as kicked out- OK? We can all read!

Forde allegedly funded her by group by robbing the houses of suspected drug dealers. When she reportedly proposed one such raid to two potential accomplices, they phoned the FBI - who did nothing because they believed the suggestion was too ludicrous to be true.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1350721/Girl-9-father-shot-dead-anti-immigrant-vigilantes-begged-life.html#ixzz1COmD1tP8

Who the hell cares, it was a robbery gone bad and that is all it was. Trying to make more of the subject doesn't make it so and you tree huggers can cry all you want. Things like this happen all the time and it will never go away as long as there are people living. Mostly has to do with greed and that is the truth, but, like ole Jack says " you can't handle the truth" hehe.

Also most racist groups do not allow the other races to join their groups, or, do you not know this. Doesn't matter at this point, they, will get their just rewards pretty soon. I for one would purpose a hanging by the neck until dead in public would be nice. This would deter some not all whom do this type of thing.

Nat you and your ilk are trying your best and I can give you credit for trying the political attack on the subject, but, it is what it is, nothing but a crime.

Max the militia is criminals, get a life and try to do some on your own. Quit tying your life to the very government whom will screw you in a hot minute when they get the chance. Look at the illegal immigration they just decided to look the other way, while these people just ruined our economy. Not any fault of their own huh, just trying to live a better life right.

It was our government whom allowed this to happen and not for political reasons either. It was for their corporate buddies and some of their rich friends whom wanted the labor market ruined along with the unions here in America. Say it ain't so!

Who the hell cares, it was a robbery gone bad and that is all it was.

I wonder if you would feel the same way if the roles were reversed....

Like I said criminals and nothing more, I don't care what race it was that committed the crime.

you tree huggers

What in the wide wide world of sports does hugging trees have to do with this?

Funny I like it. Just a splinter version of the far leaning left.

Broad brush.

Sometimes you need a really broad brush to cover everyone!

Make sense.

Agreed, april. Well said.

Agree with April and the factoid being overlooked in the heated rhetoric is that these were American Citizens born and raised in America by American parents. While they were of Mexican heritage the daughters are third generation Americans. The Anti Illegal Immigrant fervor has lead to an extremist xenophobic mentality that grants permission for crazies to act. Isn't right, and there is no excuse for the murderers actions, but it sets the stage.

Walls are not the answer!!!!!!

Just a quick question April -- what Native American tribe does your family come from? Because every single non-Native American just decided to invade this country without papers from the Indigenous Native Americans!!!!!

And your intolerance is showing!!!!! I will pray for your soul.

There is a great Jeff Parker 2006 Native American political cartoon which best surmises the problem I have with April's less than tolerant perspective ----

Native Americans standing along the shore with a partially built fence made from trees. Pilgrims in a small boat going back to their ship, when one of the "illegal immigrant" European says to another "They say they're building a wall because too many of us enter illegally and won't learn their language or assimilate into their culture. . . . . "

As a third generation Mexican (Indigena)-American and having all of my family being traced to North America (and parts of the US southwest), I can honestly say that a eurocentric perspective is intolerant and unbecoming of the country of immigrants from all nations.

Natalia-996117--

Just a quick question April -- what Native American tribe does your family come from? Because every single non-Native American just decided to invade this country without papers from the Indigenous Native Americans!!!!!

Hon, when was the Constitution to the US written? And when was the 14th Amendment signed and ratified?

The white man's law??????

By those who invaded this country -- the English, the French, and the Europeans were not asked to come and invade this country, break treaties and steal the land from the Native Americans. And kill the Natives because they wanted to keep their land, share their land, but never sell this country!!!!!

The sad part of this country's history is that this land was not given freely, but taken by force and lies and broken treaties.

So, do you know the RIGHT US history -- not the WHITE US history?

Maybe you should read a good starter book --- Lies My Teacher Told Me by (Prof Emer) James B. Loewen. It shows how US history has been distorted in such a way that most (white) Americans do not understand basic facts about the "founding" of their own country.

Nat-- Northern Plains, mostly, a bit Bloods, and as my gramma used to say, whoever else was hanging around. If you'd like the whole breakdown, let me know. POTUS Obama is a piker when it comes to being " a mutt".

My NDN ancestors were not opposed to slaughtering members of other tribes who encroached upon their lands.

Thanks for asking, I love the opportunity to think about gramma.

Oh Nat, I almost forgot. Would you please document the news stories from CNN and MSNBC? I couldn't find them. I must be searching incorrectly.

THANKS!

CynicL1. Although I agree with you in general, I don't believe anybody gave the attackers permission. I don't believe anybody in their right minds in this country could condone such a horrible act. The attackers were there to rob the place because they thought there was money there from the sale of drugs. Using the excuse they needed the money to fund their militia group to justify their actions. But common sense shows they were abusing what power they thought they had to do home invasions. This time they went into the wrong house and got shot for their trouble, and have to pay the piper now! I personally hope they all get a life sentences with no parole!

No life sentences anymore, I get tired of paying taxes to keep these bastards alive. It's time to use our monies in a positive way instead of keeping these POS alive, let's use it to get our children's lives in order. Not all children will need the extra help getting things together, but, if we just allow one to fall through the cracks by simply just ignoring the fact they need the help, then, really who are we?

Nat I'm sure you want the amnesty for all illegal immigrants, but, this too will pass. This country can not just absorb the in-fluctuation of millions of people from another country whom would throw American citizens in prison for doing the same thing the Mexican people are doing here. So I'm all for treating the same way, throw them in prison and then deport them when they are done with their sentences. It is nothing but an invasion, looks like a duck syndrome.

Not only the Mexican people whom are illegal either I would like to see all illegals sent to prison and then home. Some free labor for the roads and the fences and then home sweet home.

I suggest putting collars on them that will shock them and temporarily paralyze them for the purpose of farm laborers, what I'm trying to say is we have a huge labor force locked up in prison. Instead of them doing prison jobs, have them working in the fields picking fruits and vegetables. If any of them try to leave the area the collar will zap them like a tazer and send out a GPS signal so they can be retrieved. Not only will the farmers save a lot of money because inmates can only make a couple of dollars a day while the prison system gets the balance thus paying for room and board for the prisoners. It will no longer cost the taxpayers money to run the prisons, in fact there will be a surplus money to help the victims of the crimes that were committed against them. We have the technology! Some people may consider this cruel and unusual punishment, I don't. As long as you stay in the fields where your job is at you won't get hurt. If you try to run the electronic leash will stop you. And you will permanently lose your privilege to work outside the prison. I think that takes care of both problems, the cost it takes to run a prison, and the illegal aliens would have nowhere to go for work!

Not a bad idea, terry. I dislike only the part about losing the right to work outside prison. Once a person serves their time, and has made recompense to the victim, I believe that the person has paid his debt to society, and should be restored his rights. I would only try to make sure that the time he serves, and the payment he must make is adequate to serve justice, and to deter future crimes he may think of committing.

copycat042. What I meant by losing the right to work outside the prison is... If a prison inmate employee working in the fields tries to run and has to be retrieved he loses the privilege of working outside the prison until he finishes his time. Once he has served his time it's up to him or her to reenter society and make something of themselves. When you're in prison any kind of job is a privilege because you get to get out of your cell and do something to help pass the time. And make a little money to buy things from the prison commissary.

Then this sounds like a wonderful idea.

It is! The only problem is getting it implemented. There are always going to be some bleeding heart liberals arguing against it for some reason or another. I don't know what a liberal is, this was just an opportunity to put that phrase into this subject. No offense to any liberals out there! I personally think it can be done. Others would say its cruel and unusual punishment. It would only be punishment if they left the job site and that would be by their own doing. Then they would worry about escapees. But I covered that possibility by having a taser and a GPS in the collar or even a waistband that can only be removed by a combination of a physical key and electronic code. When a person is sentenced to hard labor today they end up in the laundry folding towels. This idea will make them contribute something to the country.

I will use liberal logic to argue for such a prison system:

I (as a libertarian/conservative) am often told that If I do not want to pay taxes for welfare, that I should move to a place where I am completely alone. The apparent logic being that somehow people who consume more than they are willing to produce are contributing in some way, and making "modern society" possible. That taxes are the payment for living in a modern society, and that to resist paying them is anti-social and those who are anti-social should have those benefits of modern society removed.

By that reasoning, I submit that removing the benefits of modern society, such as indoor toilets, running water, the internal combustion engine, electricity, etc. from those who have acted in an anti-social manner by committing crime against their fellow man is neither cruel, nor if implemented widely would it be unusual.

Inmates doing farm labor as punishment for their crimes will be contributing to an easing of the burden of the taxpayers. And hopefully instill a work ethic to some of those prisoners before they get out. Those inmates who are an escape risk such as ones with a life sentence can take the positions inside the prison that the non lifers left to work on the farms. I think this is very doable! Perhaps with a little more refining, but the general idea would solve a lot of our problems we have today in regards to illegal immigrants, and the wasted labor of an incarcerated population!

i cant read crap like this, shames me to share a nation with scums like these.

I share the sadness and shame with both of you. What I truly don't understand is how anyone can try to spin what's happened here. Really reprehensible.

I am anti death penaly, which is not to say I don't think many people deserve it.

May the killers spend their days in general population, and be forced on a daily basis, to live in a scintilla of the fear they forced on that innocent child, and not in protective custody, in a segregated unit.

The fact that this story did not get the coverage it deserves just proves how much the media is playing into the "fear the brown people" rhetoric from Fox and friends.

I wonder how this story would have been handled if say the victims had been "illegal" of Polish/German/Anglo descent? Playing devil's advocate here!!!!

Natalia-996117--

The fact that this story did not get the coverage it deserves just proves how much the media is playing into the "fear the brown people" rhetoric from Fox and friends.

Ok BACK Up there. Lets look at the fact that NO OTHER MS media covered this either. Hmmmm wasn't even on Cnn, not MSNBC, not Daily Kos, not Mother Jones, not TPM.

So can the bias.

Nope, wrong again. This story was covered on MSNBC and CNN, which is where I heard about it!!!!!!

You can can your bias!!!!! Thank you very much!!!

When the immigratiom debate started 4 years ago with the Wal-Mart bust of illegals working, they were of Polish descent, not Mexican-American.

Yets, what did FOX and friends show as a reference to the immigration issue -- the US/Mexico border --- why???? To show their white Christian viewers that they needed to "fear the browning of America" a specific term used by O'Reilly during a show in which he implored his viewers to have a bunch of "white babies" to counter the number the Mexican bavies being born.

http://vodpod.com/watch/4309155-bill-oreilly-the-decline-of-white-privilege-supremacy

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=795788

Natalia, very informative links. O'Reilly, all those people at Fox, just feeding the fear machine. But as the last paragraph in that last link shows, what they are really terrified of is the political repercussions. So, after all this brown bashing, you bet.... the GOP/Tea Party folks really do have something to worry about.

"Ok BACK Up there. Lets look at the fact that NO OTHER MS media covered this either. Hmmmm wasn't even on Cnn, not MSNBC, not Daily Kos, not Mother Jones, not TPM.

So can the bias."

You were saying????

http://feeds.cbsnews.com/~r/CBSNewsStory/~3/2h6XaF-7fuo/main7284894.shtml">http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/01/26/national/main7284894.shtmlhttp://feeds.cbsnews.com/~r/CBSNewsStory/~3/2h6XaF-7fuo/main7284894.shtml

http://abcnews.go.com/US/minutemen-vigilante-trial-deadly-arizona-home-invasion/story?id=12778301

Thanks! I asked for the links in the wrong place, but you kindly provided the right stuff. I'm on my cell and getting a headache trying to read the tiny print on some sites.

Orrrrrr,

www.huffingtonpost.com/t/the-shawna-forde-trial-an_29240126563426305.html

I fully understand your position, there is much misinformation and hyperbole, thats why I prefaced my remarks.

Where is the ongoing outrage about the murder of children by drunk drivers and gang members, including those committed by illegal aliens?

These killers are all unworthy of our mercy, and deserve our vigilance in the outcome of their trials.

It is a clear cut case of robbery as the motive and has nothing to do with the victims being illegal immigrants.

This trio went hunting for illegal immigrants and would steal from their corpses to finance their vigilante movement.

Apparently you did not pay attention, both of the parents were native born American Citizens as was the daughter who was killed and the surviving daughter. And yes the assailants were there to rob what the presumed was a drug dealer in an attempt to fund their anti immigrant "Militia".

And yes the assailants were there to rob what the presumed was a drug dealer in an attempt to fund their anti immigrant "Militia".

...and that makes it a political act.

Plantsmantx--

...and that makes it a political act.

No it actually doesn't.

Some "Patriot" militia types robbed banks in the Nineties to fund their political activities, and those robberies were political acts. The same thing is true of this crime.

Plantsmantx
Excellent post. These extremists would not have been on the boarder in AZ if they did not have a political agenda.

They picked on the illegal family because they knew that most illegal immigrants are hesitate to call the police for fear of being deported.

They purposely picked them out because of their race.

They are racist because of their political ideology in that they were part of the minute men militia.

A good video to view is Spurlock's 30 Days episode in which he has a Cuban minute man live with an illegal immigrant family in LA for 30 days. This man visits the home in Mexico where this family came from. Heart breaking and life changing!!!!!! It takes no sides as to what is right or wrong, but shows the immoral policies of both countries which force many to flee Mexico and come to the US in order for basic survival.

http://vimeo.com/11155073

Here is the episode -- enjoy!!!!

Plantsmantx--

Except this extreme group is not political.

Have a read about these 3 individuals.

Murders of Raul and Brisenia Flores

This was about robbing drug dealers. And this woman has a history of craziness.

This was about robbing drug dealers. And this woman has a history of craziness.

It was about robbing someone they thought was a drug trafficker in order to raise money for political activities. As I and others said above, whether or not he was a drug dealer is completely irrelevant. The same goes for her supposed "craziness". The motive behind this crime is clearly political.

They are racist because of their political ideology in that they were part of the minute men militia.

No. Minutemen American Defence group is NOT part of the Minuteman Project.

...both of the parents were native born American Citizens as was the daughter who was killed and the surviving daughter.

I said they were hunting for illegal immigrants. I didn't mean to imply that they weren't above killing Americans that looked Mexican.

Racists don't tend to be Mensa candidates.

I was wrong about that being the motive of all three, though. One of the killers was along for the ride to pay back a bad drug deal.

Actually they are using the excuse of political motivation to justify robbery and murder for their own benefit! Many times on television I see police raids on the news showing stacks of money all over the places being raided. That is what motivated them! They figured if they hit enough places, they would hit the mother lode like they saw on television. But it obviously didn't work out this time! So the truth be known it is so obvious this had nothing to do with funding a cause real or imagined but only the funding of personal greed.

Yes, it was a robbery attempt to finance a vigilante group whose purpose is to kill illegal aliens.

Jorge, your comprehension skills are terrible.

They were shot to get money to finance the killing of other illegals.

What is it about "VIGILANTE" that you don't understand?

Clarke,

They may be vigilantes but their intent is not to finance their vigilante activities. Read the article again. Just because they are vigilantes means that they are really there to perform their real intent as vigilantes for good reasons.

Some are criminals just as what you will find in a community of decent and honest workers, there are robbers and criminals. To attach their vigilante status against illegal immigrants for their criminal intent of robbing people is just not fair and just. It is misleading and a serious breach of muddling the issues just to foment hate and dissolution to a basic and legal complaint by honest and decent people who happens to agree that illegal immigration is wrong.

Clarke

provide the evidence it was about financing the killing of illegals?

sorry this is a robbery plain and simple..

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_bfe15833-f7a0-5aa7-9432-6dad29a10db5.html

Here you go Jorge.

They said she told them a second team would then come in and gather up the drugs, money and weapons, which would be sold to help the Minutemen American Defense, an organization based in the state of Washington.

That clear enough for you?

Cynic

and how many illegals has Minutemen defense killed?

Why would anyone need to FINANCE killing of illegals?

1. these people already have the means, lots of guns and bullets

2. Illegals are easy to find.

SOrry if they really wanted to kill illegals they would have killed them..no need to do Robberys to finance it..

CynicL1--

Except what is interestingly NOT mentioned in the article one of the men involved was described as Mexican. His name was Albert Gaxiola.

This woman and her group are complete nuts and she has a history of issues. She was kicked out of the Minutemen, the REAL Minutemen.

Murders of Raul and Brisenia Flores

This actually was more of a robbery job as Forde was more into robbing drug dealers to fund her "vigilante" group that I am presuming is not acceptable not even by the real Minutemen.

kshark

the fact this crazy wench worked with a Mexican to comitt robberys blows the claim it was all racial motivated out of the water.

Jorge-2191028--

Well I don't know specifically where Albert Gaxiola was born, the Flores family said the guy looked Mexican, but looking at him

Child Killer Albert Robert Gaxiola, described by friends and neighbors as "one of the nicest guys you'd ever meet"

His photo is included on the page.

CynicL 1,

The article specifically states that the leader was thrown out and was not a member anymore of the former militiamen group. she formed her own group intent on more extreme measures.

2. You yourself mentioned that they killed not illegals but legal immigrants.

3. A member of their team is actually a Mexican.

Common sense dictates these group is not intent on dealing with illegal immigration. If their purpose as they stated which to me is just mere excuse to be found not guilty of the atrocities they committed then they belong not to those opposed to illegal immigration. The leader and I refer to the leader alone must have been more of a skin head who hates people of different color and jews. If you are not white, she does not care whether you are illegal or not. You are not welcome. Period.

This is the danger of this post. People that legally work because they believe that illegal immigration is wrong is being chastised, berated and accused of horrendous deeds that has nothing to do with them.

No matter how you turn it, you are wrong in your accusation for the real reason of their actions. This is the reason why I call this post misleading, the title frivolous and not a good post.

So this is a robbery plain and simple right George?
Why did the vigilantes bring guns and murder everybody? Sounds pretty premeditated to me and the state attorney thinks so as well. He could not get the death penalty if he could not prove premeditation by these political extremist.

Your argument are merrily political rationalization for all of the extremist rabble rousing the right wing media has done over the past decade.

As far as other immigrants that have been murdered in the desert. I would investigate the minuteman. In the eyes of law enforcement personnel these groups should be suspect in every death on the boarder.

Jake319--

No one is saying it was not a simple fly by the seat of their pants robbery. It is being looked at as a premeditated robbery. Robberies can indeed be premeditated, come on you know that one.

Jake

Illegals immigrants are killed and left to die by..their fellow mexicans who also rape rob and murder them.

San Diego Police years ago ran an operation on the border to stop illegals from beng vitimized..

What they found is in many cases the illegals were being robbed by other illegals and by corrupt mexican police

sory fact is

Far more illegals killed by their fellow mexicans then by minutemen or any other militia

Far more illegals killed by their fellow mexicans then by minutemen or any other militia

So, that somehow makes it OK then? Jeez Jorge, that one is right up there with that old "Blacks sold their own and promoted the slave trade" excuse that somehow allows a few folks to sleep better at night- it's getting really old, time to dredge up some new material!

Clarke. I'm sorry but I disagree with your interpretation of the story. Read it again. This was just a straight up robbery, there's nothing mentioned about them robbing people to get money to go out and murder illegal aliens. They robbed the place thinking it was a drug den! Nobody knows if it was or not because that is not mentioned. Chances are the husband that was murdered was actually a drug dealer. Why else would these lunatics try to rob him? And if he was, then he is also responsible for his child's murder. This stuff happens all the time. Putting his family in danger for the almighty dollar.

and I couldnt find equally bad comments from the left if I searched the internet?

I dounbt it...go ahead, quote a leftist comment supporting a neo nazi.....

All of mine are from right here on NV....

Angry Left-532262--

Eh well I won't say what the left supports *smirking* as it doesn't have anything to do with this article. However, would you rather the Mexican Drug Cartel to cross the border, with no one stopping them? Would you like Juarez happening on the US side of the border?

How about just legalizing their product???....pot at least.

I don't agree with illegal immigration at all.....I just disagree with neo nazi vigilantes even more so.

The Kennedy family made it's money from running booze during prohibition......who are the Kennedy's of tomorrow???

Why was this deranged woman's "minuteman" group based in Washington State? AL, they were coming for you, man, I'm telling you. You better ship me all your gourmedibles for safekeeping, you know, just in case.

ANgryleft

what about all their other products

meth?

cocaine?

prostitutes?

slave labor?

boot leg products of all kinds?

illegal chemicals ?

etc etc

Where do you think most of the meth comes from now a days? the days of the home grown meth cook long gone.

majority of southwest meth comes from across the border. produced by the cartels

don't forget illegal guns. They run those too....and I'm not referring to a simple hand gun.

Angry Left-532262--

WHOA back up, you think the Mexican Drug Cartel is only dealing pot?????????? Oh boy.

Kshark
So we need to have bunch of criminal vigilantes to secure our boader? From a law mans point of view these vigilantes are obstructing law enforcement. These self proclaimed vigilantes can also be criminal and as murderous as the cartel.
We see those by the intentions of this woman and her hick friends.

Jake319--

So we need to have bunch of criminal vigilantes to secure our boader?

Given the fact we still have traffickers, drugs, violence, etc coming across the border as is, obviously border agents are not enough and cannot be doing enough. People are angry about any walls being built even though illegals still pouring across can get over the walls and in some areas there are not even walls. So who else is going to take up the slack and protect the American citizens still living down there?

From a law mans point of view these vigilantes are obstructing law enforcement. These self proclaimed vigilantes can also be criminal and as murderous as the cartel.

Well Federal Government is obstructing it as well as they are not doing more than they could be doing. And obviously the Federal Government really is NOT as pissy about the minutemen or else they would have gone after them already. They haven't.

I am guessing the Federal Government deep down is saying thank god we do have the Minutemen helping out.

We see those by the intentions of this woman and her hick friends.

Yeah and guess what she was KICKED OUT of the minutemen. She has serious issues and started some crazy ass group that is not legit in their purpose. Do some more research, don't just go by this article. I posted other links in this seed. Have a read.

WHOA back up, you think the Mexican Drug Cartel is only dealing pot??????????

Not at all......I'm saying that the cartels wouldn't have to sell drugs if the US didn't consume 70+% of ALL the drugs in the world. Treatment not prosecution.

Pot is a good place to start. Pot is no worse than beer or tobacco.

prostitutes?

Should be legal.

Angry left

it should legal to pimp out teenage girls the way the cartels do?

......I'm saying that the cartels wouldn't have to sell drugs

I don't think they do it because they have to.

Question quoted by kShark:

So we need to have bunch of criminal vigilantes to secure our boader?

kShark's response:

Given the fact we still have traffickers, drugs, violence, etc coming across the border as is, obviously border agents are not enough and cannot be doing enough. People are angry about any walls being built even though illegals still pouring across can get over the walls and in some areas there are not even walls. So who else is going to take up the slack and protect the American citizens still living down there?

Wow, way to justify the murder of a nine year old girl. No, we do not need criminal vigilantes patrolling our borders. You talk as if this thugs were protecting someone. They were not, They were destroying a family. Protecting the American citizens ???? Are you delusional?

The girl's father was known to be dealing drugs. In fact, the testimony was that most folks living in that particular community were involved in various sorts of illegal activities. The snitch talked about a criminal's code: kill the man, that was business, but never the wife and/or kids. The snitch claims that is why he turned snitch: he couldn't stomach the idea of killing the little girl (or the mom, who survived because she was able to shoot the assassin).

Jorge-2191028

Angry left

it should legal to pimp out teenage girls the way the cartels do?

Where's this come from Jorge? Once again, your comments amount to sheeit.

The girl's father was known to be dealing drugs.

Source please.

Agreed with everything you said except the death penalty part. I personally don't believe in the death penalty.

Amen Nightbreeze!Sorry,but I have one thing to add too.Not the way its being done here.

Points taken, guys.

Agreed. Vote it up.

check this.... google results....

arizona tea party + minutemen

very interesting

$200 says she was also legally insane and there were signs to here mental state years ago.

and there were signs to here mental state years ago.

Before I place the bet, please tell me what "here" means?

Sorry "her".

This was bound to happen. Arizona is a hotbed of anti-immigrant hysteria, extremely rightwing, and a haven for gun nuts.

Just think of the Tucson shooting... another little nine year old girl, 5 others dead, Rep. Giffords and 18 others injured... What messages was that crazy shooter receiving with all this other insanity going on?

Washington D.C. has the most gun crime in the country, that's all I have to say about the people who live there. :)

While we're making generalizations, I bet Iraq is full of insane religious nuts, Ireland is full of drunks, France is full of cowards. lol.

Maybe Dems should stay away from stereotypes, especially wrong ones.

Self Defender I don't see the relevancy of you comparing your supposedly smart,intelligent, true freedom loving, patriotic and high class conservative Americans in peaceful family friendly sunny Arizona, to a group of people who live in a high crime and drug infested area like Washington DC.

I can understand crime and drive by shootings in the inner cities of America where people are fighting to control the multibillion dollar drug trade. I understand that innocent people get killed by bullets.

What I don't, and never will understand, are racist and bigots with guns, going to some ones house and killing them because of their immigration status or skin color.

Maybe youre lookin at em the wrong way then Fed up.Just sayin........

Who said Arizona is peaceful? How can you understand the drug trade without understanding that people come across the border illegally with illegal guns and illegal drugs into this country.....illegally. Illegal. The human smugglers who bring people into the country illegally. Notice all the times I said illegal? All of you who say you understand you really dont.

No other culture who has come to this country illegaly has demanded the kind of rights Mexicans have. Illegal immigrants do not have the rights regular Amricans do. They are protected because they are not documented, yet they demand the same rights as you or me. They march in our cities waving mexican flags. They are not here to be American, they are to be Mexicans in America, and Americans stand up for them. I ll never understand that.

Go to Canada, wave an American flag around, and demand that they give you free health care. I wonder how far you'll get. Maybe halfway down a main street and I bet you get tossed out of the country.

I wasnt comparing Arizona to DC, I should have stated that better. What i was hinting at was that the White House is in DC hence the Preident must be one of those people I was talking about. I was making fun of your generalization, but it seems you couldnt see that.

That was me calling you dumb :). From now on I ll be spelling everything out for you.

The fact that you are putting all Arizonians in a group with 3 vigilantes and 1 psycho shooter, shows just how bad your reasoning abilities are. I love a good idiot Dem. Almost as good as a self righteous Rep. lol. I am an equal opportunity political hater. :)

BS...

Obama is NOT Responsible for a GROUP of Cold Blooded Killers that have been whipped up into a frenzy by fanaticals who want to turn the COUNTRY all WHITE AGAIN!!!

Congats Ron.Thats the most racist statement Ive seen here all day!

How is that racist? They were Cold Blodded Killers and probably white power folks too.

Self defender,I was commenting to the generalization implied that if you are against illegal immigration you have been "whipped up into a frenzy by fanaticals who want to turn the country all white again." Frankly Self Defender,as an Arizonan who is tired of the crap levied at my state by so many who actually have been whipped into a frenzy,Im not letting this garbage slide any longer.What they are is cold bloode killers peiod.They were robbing what they thought was a drug house.You know who does that most often here in AZ?Mexican drug gangs.They do it to illegals and their families because they know there is less chance of the cops being called.Excuse me for being a little hair triggered.I saw the president of Mexico talking @!$%# about my state to a standing ovation from Congress this summer.I have been cursed with a long memory.

I didnt see it like that. Kudos for the deep thought though. I ve watched as AZ has become the @!$%# of America because people who have no idea about us talk alot of @!$%#. including the President and other Americans. I m a Texan who s been stationed in AZ for 6 years. I ve come to love this place very much.

I cant believe Americans would stand against one of their own states and side with Mexico, a country who cannot stand on its own 2 feet. I love to hear all of this crap about Mexican culture when their people are FLEEING the country. lol. Its a damn joke. If you love your heritage stay and fight. Dont go to a better country and plant your flag saying "this is ours now" thats not how the world works kiddys.