Myths and falsehoods about health care reform

Rush has reached a state where he just spews out uninformed babble to fill up what would otherwise be empty airtime.

What I find interesting about this debate is that the left spends all its time and energy attacking the "lies and misrepresentations" of the right instead of touting the benefits of Obama's health plan. This article/seed is case in point.

The left should be out there selling this plan and it's benefits, instead of amplifying the "lies and misrepresentations" of the right continuously attacking them.

Don't tell me the right is wrong. Tell me why this plan is a good idea.

for bluekilgoretrout,

Actually Rush has lost a substantial amount of weight and is looking quite buff, so there you guys on the left go again telling lies

Teach a man to fish,

not only will it bring him a lot of pleasure , but he will also be able to feed himself and his family., but it seems the socialist(better) way is to give him the fish and make him dependant on the government for his food, housing, car, healthcare,. This is what is happening with all of the bailouts that as of late have taken place. So here are some ideas, since the Democrats are always complaining that the Republicans are the party of "NO"

here are some ideas for all these jerks in Washington DC

1. Read the F&&&&&G bill and do the work the peolpe sent you to Washington to do instead of whining that it's just too big to read...Your getting $170,000 dollars a year with time off for good behaviour(HA) a health care plan second to none..Free postage, free travel, a home in washington DC and God knows how many other perks, so I don't really give a crap that you are overworked...Your not..be thankful you have a job, unlike many of the people you pretend to represent.

2. The Social Security system and Medicare/Medicaid we're founded in order to provide for people in their later years and to provide a safety net to those in most need, however now the O'Bama Government wants to tack another Trillion onto a whole new set of circumstances to Provide for many others.

Here's an idea boys and girls..

Why not overhaul the system and make it work a lot better instead of creating a whole new entitlement program which will more than likely fail, much in the same way SS and Medicare are failing right now. Just fix the system....Nah... too much work... we would actually have to think; instead let's throw some more gooseggs at the problem, it'a always worked in the past...yes for 30 or 40 years and then we have to come up with a new entitlment program.

3. People receive monetary awards for the most inconsequential stupid things such as Awards from tobacco companies for their Cancer which had they quit smoking would not be an issue, traffic Accidents while talking on the phone, Eating a full course meal while driving(I've actually seen somebody doing this while on the Parkway) and this drives the cost of insurance through the roof. I am not saying there are not legitimate claims, but some of them are downright stupid and clog up the court system.

...Do you remember the woman who was awarded $2.3 million in a suit against McDonald's because "she" spilled hot coffee all over herself. (The Award was later reduced but not eliminated).

...While driving to an appointment, one of your employees remembers he needs to contact a coworker regarding a meeting. He dials the number on his cell phone, and briefly takes his eyes off the road. In that instant, a vehicle in front of him shifts lanes, and he strikes it, seriously injuring a 78-year-old woman...Under exactly this scenario, a jury awarded a $21 million judgment against Dykes Industries of Little Rock, Arkansas.

Predator-Plaintiffs filed 30 Million new lawsuits last year! That's over 82,000 PER DAY and the number keeps growing. Opportunists make careers out of filing lawsuits, knowing that the expense of defending against these attacks is so high, a settlement will likely be offered.

Who can't wait to sue you? Just about anyone you can name. A partial listing, but not all inclusive:

EMPLOYMENT LAWSUITS ARISING FROM Age discrimination. Racial, Gender, Religious, Pregnancy, Disability, Mental illness, Addiction discrimination. Sexual harassment. Peer harassment. Gossip among employees. Job references (good or bad). Whistle blowing retaliation. Wrongful termination. Negligent employee retention. Releasing medical information. Unequal mental vs. physical health coverage. Employee injury from chemical exposure. And much more.

PROFESSIONAL MALPRACTICE LAWSUITS ARISING FROM Medical malpractice. Legal, Psychological, Engineering, Architectural malpractice. And much more.

BUSINESS LIABILITY LAWSUITS ARISING FROM Environmental cleanup liability. Products liability. Shareholder liability. Securities fraud. Liability of outside directors. Liability from unsatisfied customers. Personal injury when a customer drinks too much and hurts someone. Personal injury when a customer slips and falls. And much more.

PERSONAL LAWSUITS ARISING FROM Divorce. Lawsuits by children. Lawsuits from business partners. Creditors claims. Accidental injury caused by a family member. Pregnancy (your son gets a girl pregnant). Personal injury caused by a drinking guest. Personal injury when a guest slips and falls. And much more.

So do you think it's time for tort reform????

these are just some of the issues, but the liberals in Congress are bound and determined to take the easiest path. Throw money at the problem and" never let a good crisis go to waste" Raum Emmanuel

I'll get you my pretty!!!!....AND YOUR LITTLE DOG TOO!!!!

A Hypothetical Situation

So here I am at 59 years old, 5' 6" and 260 pounds. I smoke I drink eat tons of Fast food Cheeseburgers and fries and have been a screwup most of my life and I am in Generally poor health . I am going to ask some Health Insurance company for Health and Life insurance, and blame them if they do not provide it, because it is mandated by the Federal Government....Helllloooo!...I don't think so. Maybe I can sue the Federal Government for misleading me...O and by the way, I am also an illegal alien.

These are the State Insurance Agencies and their affiliates and also the thedacare website for those of you who care enough to do your research and not rely on the government

http://www.thedacare.org/ThedacareWeb/

http://health-insurance-carriers.com/states.html

Luke: New here, but wholeheartedly agree with you. Dems need to stop defending their position and start PROMOTING it... and start pointing out (repeatedly) that the GOP has offered NOTHING and are unwilling to make any concessions re: health care (insurance) reform. GOP is advocating the status quo, agitating the "base" (aka loudmouths, teabaggers, birthers and racists) and trying to pass this off as the majority. It takes my breath away that there are those in the middle/blue collar class advocating the "right" of insurance cos. to continuing ripping us off! WHAT don't they get?

bear-44

Hey there Bear,

Good point, but remember what Obie-Wan Kanobie said to Han Solo

"Who's the more foolish..The fool or the fool who follows him"

Your absolutely right...The Republicans have no ideas.. all they can offer up are

1.Tax cuts for small business' that hire the people to do the work and thereby helping the economy recover faster

Putting money back in the hands of taxpayers is the best way to stimulate an ailing economy...Myself, If I got a $1,000 rebate, I would by a new amplifier for my new Guitar and put the folks who make Amplifier parts, tubes,transistors, speakers,knobs to work so they can be the beneficiary of the Tax rebates

2. Tax credits for healthcare in the amount of $5,000

3. Allowing consumers to buy health insurance across State lines and making it more competitive and affordable

4. Not allowing illegal aliens the same health and SS benefits afforded American Citizens. Go back home and come back Legally and then we will be glad to pay for your healthcare.

5.Limiting the amount that a person in an accident can sue wether it be Medical or other can sue for with an allowance for catastrophic consequences.

(Tort Reform)

Hmmmm!!!! that's only 5.....

"A Government that has the power to give you everything you want also has the power to take it away"

Yoda

Hey Luke pccpa

"I AM YOUR FATHER"

Just What are the Benefits of OBAMACARE. seems to me they change on a daily basis

Annakan Skywalker

Joe: Thanks for reply. I can tell, we're going to butt heads, but that's okay. I enjoy "lively debate" and am open to opposing opinions. First and foremost, I've never seen Star Wars..sci-fi is not my thing-so I don't totally understand your reference. However, suggesting the GOP has anything new to offer? Seriously? As ever, it's tax cuts...tax credits-which, lets be honest, doesn't do much for "average Joe". I think the GOP is talking out of both sides of their mouths. On one side, it's TAX CUTS, on the other, it's the deficit. How can they advocate for tax cuts while whining about our debt? I'd sure like to know where these fiscal conservatives have been for the past eight years. Didn't hear a peep about the never-ending cost of the Iraq debacle. Apparently, we have an unlimited amount of money for war (and no questions asked), but not a penny for healthcare. A $5,000 tax CREDIT for healthcare? Come on, Joe, average yearly cost for family of four (if I remember correctly) is $12,000. IMO, any bill (which we don't have yet) that doesn't include a strong public option is not acceptable. The only way "for profit" health insurance (an obscenity in itself) can make a profit is by constantly raising premiums and deductables-so we, as consumers, are paying for all our routine care out of pocket. All this baloney about socialist health care is nothing more than baloney. Insurance co. already stand between patients and their drs. and determine what services/treatments we'll be allowed. If you start costing them too much, you're dropped. Good luck finding a new insurer with your pre-existing condition. You're NOT going to try to pretend "for profit" health insurance isn't rigged in favor of insurance co., are you? As long as "for profit" companies are given a seat at the table and a voice in the discussion, nothing will change. We'll continue to be robbed, denied treatment and dropped at every/any excuse. I strongly support universal health care/Medicare for all, but realize that the best I can hope for (if Dems develop a backbone) is a strong public option. Good on you if you got yours, but the world doesn't stop at the end of your/my nose. I would agree with you re: health care/SS for illegals. However, to the best of my knowledge (again, there is no final bill) there is no provision for such. Of course, the system has been abused for years-particularly since St. Ronnie Reagan's amnesty. NO administration, left or right, has done a thing to secure our ports/borders or made a serious attempt to stem the flow of illegals. Let's not pretend this is Obama's fault. Re: tort reform-six of one, half dozen of the other. Frivolous lawsuits (McDonald's coffee) should be smacked down big-time and lawyers fined for such. However, limiting damages to $250,000-I don't think so. Well, I'm overlong. I've read some of your posts, Joe, and you seem to see things as black or white. I tend to see the gray in between. We may just have to agree to disagree.

Hey Bear

Why is that?...because most democrats beleive they are an advanced species who can see all the colors of an issue. I beleive that O'Bama is very arrogant as are many liberals in Congress and some republicans, but it seems that Democrats do not like having an opposition to their ideas(Barnie Frank). I used to feel the same way about things when I was younger, but as I have gotten on in years and I am not that old..Life gets a little clearer and things sometimes seem to be black and white, so lets see here. I actually am in favor of Public Asssistance in this health area, but Government has screwed up SS, Medicare, they can't run the postal service, They continually bail out big industry, They vote themselves a raise every year and still continue to F^^k up the system, and you tell me to trust these people with my Healthcare...No thank you, I can do that with my doctor just fine. They seem to be intent on taking money from one class of people and give it to another(I am not wealthy by the way)...I just don't agree with socialized government..that's not what our founding fathers beleived in when they formed this Republic, but anyway I digress. This monstrosity of a Healthcare Bill and the other monstrosities that this government has perpetrated on the American people is a little bit upsetting particularly when they don't even read the bill..How do you or I know what is in the Bill.. Here is an example

(4) M

EDICAID DSH.—In this section, the term

‘‘Medicaid DSH’’ means adjustments in payments

5

under section 1923 of the Social Security Act for in

6

patient hospital services furnished by dispropor

7

tionate share hospitals.

8

(b) MEDICAID DSH REDUCTIONS.—

9

(1) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall reduce

10

Medicaid DSH so as to reduce total Federal pay11

ments to all States for such purpose by

12

$1,500,000,000 in fiscal year 2017, $2,500,000,000

13

in fiscal year 2018, and $6,000,000,000 in fiscal

14

year 2019.
15

(2) DSH HEALTH REFORM METHODOLOGY

So What does that mean..Reductions in Medicaid to the States not by a Million or a billion, a trillion...and just where did those cuts come from or go to. You see from my point of veiw, whenever the government gets involved in rationing healthcare or rationing anything, it becomes like the Camel with his nose in the tent.

The story goes like this:

The Camel's Nose In The Tent.

One cold night, as an Arab sat in his tent, a camel gently thrust his nose under the flap and looked in. "Master," he said, "let me put my nose in your tent. It's cold and stormy out here." "By all means," said the Arab, "and welcome" as he turned over and went to sleep.

A little later the Arab awoke to find that the camel had not only put his nose in the tent but his head and neck also. The camel, who had been turning his head from side to side, said, "I will take but little more room if I place my forelegs within the tent. It is difficult standing out here." "Yes, you may put your forelegs within," said the Arab, moving a little to make room, for the tent was small.

Finally, the camel said, "May I not stand wholly inside? I keep the tent open by standing as I do." "Yes, yes," said the Arab. "Come wholly inside. Perhaps it will be better for both of us." So the camel crowded in. The Arab with difficulty in the crowded quarters again went to sleep. When he woke up the next time, he was outside in the cold and the camel had the tent to himself.

We are not an Arrogant country and I would never deny services or care to any of my fellow americans or even to strangers, but someone is going to pay for this and I would like to see my neices and nephews have the same opportunities I have had , but I am sure they will have to fight for that, which in the sceme of things is not all that bad, because you never appreciate anything if you've always had it handed to you, which is by the way another reason I disagree with the socialist point of view...It's never enough... It's just gimme, gimme, gimme.

and in addition to that,my President has been apologising for me to every two bit dictator who will sit at the table with him, that America is a Nation that has made mistakes..We'll who the hell hasn't, that doesn't mean we are a bad or rogue nation.

By the way, You are not the first one who disagrees with my philosophy...many of my friends disagree with me quite strongly, but it does not bother me..I have always liked taking the least popular veiw of an issue and it is usually, because it is what I beleive to be true.

by the way

St. Ronnie pulled The US out of the mess that Jimmy the peanut farmer created, by lowering the tax rates and fostering growth in an ailing economy and even though I didn't really care for Mr.Bill he also had a very robust economy, given to him by the Republican party in 1994

You should go see the new Star Trek though...It's quite entertaining

I look forward to hearing from you

Actually Mr.Chum,

No disrespect intended, but I do beleive it is you who are in need of History lesson, and while I would agree that 4 years of a Man's life does not make up the sum total of that man's contribution's to Society, I'm glad he didn't get 8 years

Legacy of Jimmy Carter

Carter's presidency is often viewed as a failure.^[41][42][43] In historical rankings of US presidents, the Carter presidency has ranged from #19 to #34. Although Carter's presidency received scathing reviews, his all-around peace keeping and humanitarian efforts since he left office have led him to be widely renowned as one of the most successful ex-presidents in US history.^[44][45]

Reaganomics" and the economy

Main articles: Reaganomics and "Reaganomics" and the economy

Ronald Reagan's official White House portrait

During Jimmy Carter's last year in office (1980), inflation averaged 12.5%, compared to 4.4% during Reagan's last year in office (1988).^[95] Over those eight years, the unemployment rate declined from 7.1% to 5.5%.^[95] Reagan implemented policies based on supply-side economics and advocated a classical liberal and laissez-faire philosophy,^[96] seeking to stimulate the economy with large, across-the-board tax cuts.^[97][98] Citing the economic theories of Arthur Laffer, Reagan promoted the proposed tax cuts as potentially stimulating the economy enough to expand the tax base, offsetting the revenue loss due to reduced rates of taxation, a theory that entered political discussion as the Laffer curve. Reaganomics was the subject of debate with supporters pointing to improvements in certain key economic indicators as evidence of success, and critics pointing to large increases in federal budget deficits and the national debt. His policy of "peace through strength" (also described as "firm but fair") resulted in a record peacetime defense buildup including a 40% real increase in defense spending between 1981 and 1985.^[99]

During Reagan's presidency, federal income tax rates were lowered significantly with the signing of the bipartisan Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981.^[100] Real gross domestic product (GDP) growth recovered strongly after the 1982 recession and grew during his eight years in office at an annual rate of 3.4% per year.^[101] Unemployment peaked at 10.8% percent in December 1982—higher than any time since the Great Depression—then dropped during the rest of Reagan's presidency.^[98] Sixteen million new jobs were created, while inflation significantly decreased.^[102] The net effect of all Reagan-era tax bills was a 1% decrease in government revenues when compared to Treasury Department revenue estimates from the Administration's first post-enactment January budgets.^[103] However, federal Income Tax receipts almost doubled from 1980 to 1989, rising from $308.7Bn to $549.0Bn. ^[104] Reagan also revised the tax code with the bipartisan Tax Reform Act of 1986.^[105]

Reagan gives a televised address from the Oval Office, outlining his plan for Tax Reduction Legislation in July 1981

Reagan's policies proposed that economic growth would occur when marginal tax rates were low enough to spur investment,^[106] which would then lead to increased economic growth, higher employment and wages. Critics labeled this "trickle-down economics"—the belief that tax policies that benefit the wealthy will create a "trickle-down" effect to the poor.^[107] Questions arose as to whether Reagan's policies benefitted the wealthy more than those living in poverty,^[108] and many poor and minority citizens viewed Reagan as indifferent to their struggles.^[108]

In accordance with Reagan's less-government intervention views, Reagan cut the budgets of non-military^[109] programs^[110] including Medicaid, food stamps, federal education programs^[109] and the EPA.^[111] He protected entitlement programs, such as Social Security and Medicare,^[112] however, his administration attempted to purge many allegedly disabled people from Social Security disability rolls.^[113]

The administration's stance toward the Savings and Loan industry contributed to the Savings and Loan crisis.^[114] It is also suggested, by a minority of Reaganomics critics, that the policies partially influenced the stock market crash of 1987,^[115] but there is no consensus regarding a single source for the crash.^[116] In order to cover newly spawned federal budget deficits, the United States borrowed heavily both domestically and abroad, raising the national debt from $700 billion to $3 trillion.^[117] Reagan described the new debt as the "greatest disappointment" of his presidency.^[117]

He reappointed Paul Volcker as Chairman of the Federal Reserve, and in 1987 he appointed monetarist Alan Greenspan to succeed him. Reagan ended the price controls on domestic oil which had contributed to energy crises in the 1970s.^[118][119] The price of oil subsequently dropped, and the 1980s did not see the fuel shortages that the 1970s had.^[120] Reagan also fulfilled a 1980 campaign promise to repeal the Windfall profit tax in 1988, which had previously increased dependence on foreign oil.^[121] Some economists, such as Nobel Prize winners Milton Friedman and Robert A. Mundell, argue that Reagan's tax policies invigorated America's economy and contributed to the economic boom of the 1990s.^[122] Other economists, such as Nobel Prize winner Robert Solow, argue that the deficits were a major reason why Reagan's successor, George H. W. Bush, reneged on a campaign promise and raised taxes.^[122]

^{I guess you must be part of the thought police}

Dear Chum,

you are right about me being new to newsvine, but I am not new to understanding history and what our founding fathers meant when Thomas Jefferson said and I am paraphrasing" "Gentleman, I give you a Republic if you can keep it" Almost all of my discussions have been respectful and factually related, which is why when you you asked me are you joking? That is just liberal speak for you are an idiot, so don't accuse me of not knowing history.. I do look forward to your historical and factual re-buttal and am sorry for any wounds I may have inflicted upon you.

Sincerely, and I mean that

Joe

Joe: I, too, an very new to newsvine-and am not quite sure if this is where I want to be. However, I take "umbrage" with some of your statements. "Democrats believe they are an advanced species", etc..? They don't like having opposition?? WTH have you been for the past 8 yrs. when the GOP ramrodded their agenda down Americans throats? (Oh, spare me the "Dems were in charge since 06" argument) Yes, St. Ronnie was a great prez...deregulation, no oversight, "trickle down" (that somehow never got there) and even ketchup as a vegetable. A true "man of the people". Sure, he cut taxes-BEFORE HE RAISED THEM! St. Ronnie was all about benefitting Corp. America at the expense of the middle class. He was no great prez. or even a great spokesman-he WAS personable, but didn't do a thing to benefit average Americans. I truly regard him as the beginning of the neo-nut movement. Well, good on you-you support Public Assistance...but sound like you resent the hell out of it. You complain about the govt. screwing up SS, Medicare, PO, etc...do you really believe it's come to this in the past six months? Sorry, doesn't fly with me. One of my major complaints about the GOP is their refusal to hold their own accountable. They seem to think they have the corner on "family values" and religion, when, in fact, they're as dirty, if not dirtier (by their hypocrisy) than the guity dems. You believe OBAMA is arrogant? How about GW lying us into an illegal war? How about "Mission Accomplished"? How about "You're with us or against us"? How about "Bring it on"? Patriot Act? Spying on Americans e-mail, phone calls? Gitmo? Torture? Rendition? Abu Girab (sp)? I regard GW and his Pinocchio adminstration as the WORST in our history. They did incredible damage to this country and, tho I know there will be no accountablity, I hope I live long enough to see Karma visit their greedy doorsteps. I do TOTALLY agree with you re: Congress members voting themselves a yearly raise. Also think they should refuse their (bought and paid for 5 star) health care until something comparable is available to the rest of us. What makes them more entitled than the poor slobs who are paying for their care? Oh, before closing, you DO realize that your health care is already rationed and goes before a "death panel". It's called your INSURANCE COMPANY...which decides what sort of treatment is allowed/necessary, as well as which dr. you can see. For the record, I'm not a goofy 'librul" or a young, ill-informed "loon"...I'm a grandmother of three-oldest being 11 yrs. old. Like I said, I suspect we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Calling it a night.

Pretty good Bear and Chum,

I must have hit a nerve with you guys and girls..well that's good..shows your thinking,

Your words about Reagan Chum

He did some things that seemed like a good idea at the time. What he was best at was being an actor. He made people feel comfortable and believe that everything would be ok. Is that what we want in a president? Not me personally, but a lot of people did (I wasn't old enough to vote).

My Siter-in-laws words about O'Bama

He makes people feel comfortable and that he wants what's best for everybody involved.

Your right...It is Subjective

many of your points are both well taken, However Hypocrisy comes in all forms of Government and we as Americans are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and say this one lied or that one lied. I don't beleive either Party has claim to the moral highground;but when you tell the American people that your government is going to be a transparent Government and then do the same things that the people have been complaining about for years...it just doesn't fly with average working people. I guess the biggest problem I find in the liberal argument is that Government is supposed to take care of all the people's needs from the Cradle to the Grave(Many people find that preferable) I do not even though I am not wealthy by any standard and will need subsidized Government intervention in the form of Social Security, because like my Father before me, I beleived in all the socialist-liberal lies..at least I do not beleive in them now.

Now to get to the heart of the problem and what will eventually bring this country to it's knees(Although this is not my wish or desire to see this country become a wasteland) is Illegal Immigration, because liberals in Congress beleive in it. In order to build up their core voting base they need Illegals to add to the voting roster(What is it that you people don't understand about illegal. I guess it must a Family tragedy like Chappaquiddick or what happened to John Walsh's son or any of the other thousands of people that are mugged, robbed and raped in America each year by illegals, and don't even think of giving me the argument that even Americans do these things also...We don't need to add to the problem as we did in 1965 with the Hart-Cellar immigration act:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hart-Cellar_Act

Here is an excerpt from the consequences of that bill

"The unexpected result has been one of the greatest waves of immigration in the nation's history — more than 18 million legal immigrants since the law's passage, over triple the number admitted during the previous 30 years, as well as uncountable millions of illegal immigrants. And the new immigrants are more likely to stay (rather than return home after a time) than those who came around the turn of the century. Moreover, this new, enlarged immigration flow came from countries in Asia and Latin America which heretofore had sent few of their sons and daughters to the United States. And finally, although the average level of education of immigrants has increased somewhat over the past 30 years, the negative gap between their education and that of native-born Americans has increased significantly, creating a mismatch between newcomers and the needs of a modern, high-tech economy."

After the war, as chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Celler resolved to liberalize the immigration laws. In 1946, Congress so restricted the number of Displaced Persons who could enter the U.S. that, despite the starvation in Europe, fewer than 3,000 DP's actually emigrated here. Celler's determined efforts led to the passage, in 1948, of a bill which allowed 339,000 DP's to enter the country, many of whom were Jewish. Finally, in 1965, President Lyndon Johnson signed into law an act that eliminated national origins as a consideration for immigration, culminating Celler's 41 year fight to overcome discrimination against Eastern European Jews and Catholics.

^{I have included an excerpt from that famous world class liberal(Emmanuel Cellar) Elections have consequences going way back and this one certainly did}

In 1922, a political acquaintance convinced Celler to run for Congress as a Tammany Hall Democrat. Celler enlisted friends, relatives and neighbors to canvass for him door-to-door. Stressing "the evils of Prohibition and the virtues of the League of Nations," although the district had never before elected a Democrat, Celler won the election by some 3,000 votes. In March of 1923, he assumed a seat he would hold for 49 years and 10 months, the second longest term in Congressional history.

I wonder why it is that people have been knocking down the gates in order to come to America and not knocking down the gates to get into Mexico or Africa or Sauidi Arabia, or Iran, or North Korea. Do you think it has something to do with "Freedom"????

The terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001 affected perspectives on many issues, including immigration. A total of 20 foreign-born terrorists were involved, 19 of whom took part in the attack that caused 2,974 civilian deaths. The terrorists had entered the country on tourist or student visas. Four of them, however, had violated the terms of their visas and become illegal aliens. The attack exposed long-standing holes in the U.S. immigration system that included failures at visa processing, internal enforcement, and information sharing.^[3]

^Thanks

So we can argue all day long about the best economic policy, and we can poke holes all day long in the socialist-marxist revolution going on in America today and we can Trash George Bush or Barrack O'Bama as if they're policies had a lot to do with these problems. They didn't...they just we're(GWB) and are not (BHO)keeping their eye on one of the biggest problems facing America, because while we are arguing over the best economic polices and healthcare programs..it is a moot point, because the Illegal Immigration into this country's social security system and it's welfare system will break it's back and we will still go on blaming people. If I we're a younger man, I would focus my energies on the immigration problem(because it is the biggest problem facing America today, not Iraq, not Afghanistan, not North Korea, Not Iran, not helthcare reform). We just keep going on, because it doesn't affect our daily lives, it will however impact our Children and our Grandchildren, which is why O'Bama just throwing money at the problem will not work..It may work temporarily, but that will only allow us to breath a little easier for a while.The problem will still be there in the morning. We are a Nation of I want it and I want it now.

This is what must have prompted Thomas jefferson to say:

Sirs, "I give you a Republic, if you can keep it"

Thanks

Dear Chum and bear,

I am sorry to lump you guys in with you people don't understand (liberals), for all I know you may be against our liberal policy towards immigration..I am betting that you probably are, but I am not betting any money

Joe