Scott Walker Gets Punked By Editor Pretending To Be David Koch

I just listened to this guy. Wow. Collaborating with Kasich and Scott to do the same thing in Ohio and Florida. Interesting.

Walker will be the new catch word for sucker

" I think I have been walkered"

I wish the caller had had the presence of mind to ask about the no-bid pipeline deal that Koch's are panting after.

Cannot believe that RV is talking about impersonation when Walker has been impersonating a polication that cares abou this state. What about the content of a pol taking a phone call form his corporate donor and making plans?

What I love the most about this story is that Koch's face finally appeared on MSM--CBS. Perhaps it broke the dam and the MSM will not be so "shy" about what is happening here.

What about those of you who impersonate a regular every day person, when you are paid shills, paid to get on these forums and dispute right wing posts, or hide them if you can't dispute them.

and dispute right wing posts

Explain to me why right wings are on a liberal blog anyway? I never go to faux news and dispute their blogs - what a waste of time that would be.

So where does one get a job as a paid shill???

If I'm going to be on here fighting with the righties anyway I might as well get paid for it.

DITTO: Angry Left-532262

Me-To,, Me-To!! where does one get a job as a big money Koch / GOP Class paid shill ???

I want a job where I can sit on my a@@ and put out Bull-SH## talk! (With blindrs on to the REAL American world)

????? Wait,, ????? Never mind! I'm Better that THAT !!

DITTO: for MNniceguy !!!

DITTO: Angry Left-532262

Me-To,, Me-To!! where does one get a job as a big money Koch / GOP Class paid shill ???

Here ya go...

One of the more interesting documents on HBGary et al’s partnership with the Chamber of Commerce details the prices they wanted to charge. Now, other emails make it clear that the Chamber balked at what the team originally proposed would be $2 million of work–the Chamber didn’t pay these rates (indeed, they probably haven’t paid for any of this).

But I was particularly interested in what HBGary’s Aaron Barr proposed charging for the work of what they called a “Social Media SME.”

Social media sme ($250 per hour) – experienced in social media link analysis. Personna development. Content management. Social media exploitation techniques.

This is a social media consultant, someone we know from the team’s plans they intended to deploy on Facebook and Twitter in false personas ultimately aiming to destroy the credibility of anti-Chamber activists.

These are just reasonably skilled trolls.

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2011/02/11/hbgary-fees-dam-it-feels-good-to-be-a-gangsta/

I watch Morning Joe every weekday morning - Joe will not bring this up. I watched him soft-ball question Scott yesterday and damn near puked out my coffee.

Today he had the Connecticut Gov. (Democrat) who was straight up and truthful (he's spreading the pain to both rich and public workers - he cut benefits for public workers, but has also raised taxes to the rich)- and for the first time Joe STFU and listened. It was really funny because that ass wipe Gov. fat-ass Cristy was on prior to the Connecticut Gov. and made my stomach turn again.

No Joe won't be showing any of this on Morning Joe and he won't let Mika talk about it either - he is always bloviating and talking over anything Mika has to say and she is so mealey-mouth - she lets him get away with it. I would slap him upside his head so fast every time he opened his mouth, the right side of his head would look like pan-cake.

The Morning Joe folks just love Governor Christy - makes me sick the way they dote on him -

I'm there with ya Dahlia

It's is quite sickening - Once the pain starts hitting "those who voted for him" wallets - there is going to be protesting in his state (I think they are still waiting for all the snow to melt - you know, he spent his time in Florida at Disney while the mayor was out helping people shoveling out - and then he had the nerve to bitched at the media for calling him to task about leaving his state buried while he was enjoying Sun & Fun).

...and especially after screwing his constituents out of millions with his incompetency - did you see where he screwed the pooch on educational funding?

Of course Joe didn't bring that up either.

Joe was trying to call out the protesters in WI because of their signs of Gov. Walker as Hitler and Mubarak - notice he only did that for one day - He found out those signs were left over Teapublican signs where they fill in the Blank with their name of choice beside the word Hitler and now Mubarak- They must mass produce those signs - they can play either side of the coin to stir the masses into biting each other (trying to make those peaceful protesters out to be just as nasty as the Teapublicans are) just by filling in the blank. Koch Brothers at their best.

for all those claiming that its not walker but an impersonator. scott walker admitted that he is the person in that phone call. he has called another press conference. hahahahahaaaaa and us wisconsinites are all saying one word. recall

I can't wait to see this cartoon - Gov. opens mouth widely - bends over - grabs foot - slams foot in widely open mouth - hops off stage.

Recall, We can't wait that long... I'm sending him this link

I watch Morning Joe every weekday morning - Joe will not bring this up. I watched him soft-ball question Scott yesterday and damn near puked out my coffee.

Joe is a right wing Republican, what do you really expect?

Good one G.Bud LOL :o)

It was really funny because that ass wipe Gov. fat-ass Cristy was on prior to the Connecticut Gov. and made my stomach turn again.

Yea, because Governor Christie asking teachers to pay a very small portion of their own health insurance premiums to help offset the state budget deficit is absolutely horrible!!

Pfft

I wouldnd't believe Cristy if he was standing on a stack of bibles swearing on his childrens heads that he is telling the truth. Unless I was in that room while negotiations were going on - to me, if his mouth is moving - he's lying. Especially when Crist screwed NJ out of millions for educational funding by his own incompetence.

Look across this nation where there are Republican Govs. They are all trying to break unions, thereby effectively trying to destroy the Democrats and the middle-class. The budget shortfalls need to be investigated to see which budget is actually in dire straights and those budget shortfalls that have been fabricated to scare the minions and break the unions.

That's what I see and that's what I'll fight...What the Republicans are doing has nothing to do with jobs, jobs, jobs - what they are doing is destroying - just like they tried to do with their Southern Strategy - You know, it's not a good idea to keep poking a wounded animal - that animal will turn around and tear the poker apart....We will see what happens at the polls...maybe we won't have to wait until 2012 - maybe half of these Republican Govs. will be recalled - Our Gov. Rick Scott - tried sticking his toe in the deep end of the pool - He's lucky - he got that toe back.

This strategy the Republicans have been trying ain't working - well, frankly, I hope they keep going down this path - If you thought there was a referendum on Democrats this past Nov. - Republicans will be looking around like they do every time they take power and screw the pooch after taking power - they will be out again, trying their games again bringing on the doom and gloom, fear and warmongering - sooner or later, their constituents will get tired of being paranoid and scared and finally take their hands down from their ears and eyes and see exactly what Republicans have done to them while doing nothing for them.

Especially when Crist screwed NJ out of millions for educational funding by his own incompetence.

Please post link with proof of this.

Well Gee Deb

I'm pretty sure you know how to use the "google", but since you couldn't be bothered, here's one link

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/08/gov_christie_blames_washington.html

Cristy couldn't even take the blame for his own incompetency - everyone else filled out the same paper work and got funding - Cristy couldn't bother doing the paper work as requested the right way and then was such a freaking weazel - he blamed President Obama for his own freaking stupidity

TRENTON — Gov. Chris Christie this morning acknowledged the state made a clerical error that blew its chance at winning $400 million in federal money for schools, but he blamed Obama administration bureaucrats for not giving New Jersey a chance to correct the mistake.

New Jersey narrowly lost out on the funding, placing three points behind Ohio – the lowest scoring state to receive funds. But on its application, New Jersey lost 4.8 points by submitting budget information on school funding for 2010 and 2011 instead of 2008 and 2009, as the application requested.

Out of one side of his mouth - he blames President Obama - out of the other side of his mouth he says he's taking responsibility - what a freaking POS.

He says he won't scapegoat the fool who screwed the pooch on this one but was more than willing to blame President Obama. Funny how everyone else was able to complete the paper work properly - yet the fat-ass cretin couldn't be bothered with the proper filing, yet is willing to place the blame on the President - CRISTY IS A FREAKING POS.

“We’ll take the responsibility we need to take for putting one wrong piece of paper in a thousand page application,” he said. “If you want to take shots, take shots at me.”

Christie said that, while there is no appeal process in the "Race to the Top" program, there is $100 million in left over funds that were not awarded. He said state Education Commissioner Bret Schundler will write a letter to U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan asking if New Jersey could have access to them.

"There’s nothing in the process that allows for that, but there’s no harm in asking," he said

Does that help Deb - I'm sure you could probably google other articles on this and don't need me holding your hand to find information if you truly wanted to read or hear it. (shakes head)

Debeki-

I wonder what would have happened if he was a Democrat?

/sarc

USA Freedom - :o)

If that was the case - Deb wouldn't have asked for a link - she would have dumped a few dozen on her own comment. (not so sarc.)

Leave it to republicans to punch a guy in the face all day and call him a violent hypocrite when he hits back.

Maybe not, but it isn't the Buffalo Beast looking like a fool. It's Walker who is pretending to be the Governor of all the citizens of Wisconsin, instead of the idiot that he is, who is making a hash of pretending to be someone else.

Rogoho: Did you say the same about O'Keefe and Breitbart?!? Somehow, I don't think so....

Maybe not, but it isn't the Buffalo Beast looking like a fool. It's Walker who is pretending to be the Governor of all the citizens of Wisconsin, instead of the idiot that he is, who is making a hash of pretending to be someone else.

I never said either was a fool. I agree that this does show the Gov. for who he is, if his actions haven't done so already.

Rogoho: Did you say the same about O'Keefe and Breitbart?!? Somehow, I don't think so....

Tell me, does adding '?!?' do something for your statement? As for Breitbart in particular, and the right wing politicians in general, I've shown my disdain for them multiple times on NV. Perhaps you should check my comment history.

Rogoho, For one I am thankful that the real tea party people in Boston didn't go along with your advise as they passed out the Indian makeup and dress in order to express their frustration with taxes as levied by Kind George. Paul Revere should be yelling The crooks are not coming, they are here.

I get a chuckle each time someone posts that the Buffalo Beast is discredited, or embarrassed, or foolish, or unethical. Straight out of the transcripts from the Nixon team attacking the Washington Post regarding Watergate. Or a lying, cheating spouse sneaking in the door at 4am pointing fingers at the accuser to cover up their own wrongdoing.

Their website got bombarded with traffic and totally crashed. But here is a link to the Thursday article by Buffalo News:

http://www.buffalonews.com/city/politics/article349786.ece

Their website got bombarded with traffic and totally crashed.

Perhaps that was the cause. But as I mull over the impersonation lawsuit, I think it's possible they took it offline to specifically not profit from the story.

Well, IF it's a hoax (and it might be), then it's a good laugh and should be taken as such. If it's REAL, what say you then?

The seed reads "it appears." If it is fact then post it as fact.

Don't mind tyler. I don't. I know him as Sir Trolls-alot.

Via MSNBC: WI Governor & the Republican Legislation just mentioned they froze the pay deposits for the Democrats who are out of state until they return.

now if the tape is fake, then Murphy is a medium

OK! If it is fact then post it as fact

Done FOX just showed the clip and are pissed

Wait a sec ??? FOX reporting ??? Facts !

I better go look else where ???

Well that will hurt them....I'm sure they are all living paycheck to paycheck worrying about where their next meal is going to come from.

Angry,

I'm not sure what WI legislators make, but here in Texas, our state legislators make about $6000 per year (or session, I don't remember)....granted, that's for about 2 month's work over a two year period.....they are of course allowed other sources of income. SO, logic dictates that the WI Dems don't exactly "need" the pay....but this shows just how little Walker can do on this issue....he can be stubborn as the day is long and the Dems can wait it out.

I was kind of being facetious. I'm sure they can hold out. Hell, I've got a spare bedroom I can let one or two crash in.....I don't usually make extra food, but I would gladly share.

There is a pizza place taking orders for the unions, I wonder if we could set something up for the reps as well.

I think the guys from WI and the ones from Indiana should just do a house swap.

I hear ya Angry, just stating that the "threat" of forcing them to pick up their paychecks is kinda hollow...and I'm loving the "house swap" idea - that would be awesome!

forcing them to pick up their paychecks

They could probably get around that as well, I'm no lawyer, but couldn't you give your legal representative (eg lawyer, wife etc) authority to pick it up for you??

You could, BUT, there are ways around that too....regardless, it's still a pretty pathetic bluff.

And at this point, as it appears the recording is legit, Walker will have other problems, not the least of which deal with campaign finance issues, potential extortion, potential breaches of ethics, etc....again, IF legit.....also, IF legit, it just adds fuel to the fire, paints him in a very bad light and further emphasizes the point of those already calling for his resignation or "recall".....so, no matter how you slice it, IF REAL, it was a dumbass move for him to "take the call" and say what he did....again, IF REAL.

If it's REAL

perhaps the caller just took a page out of the right-wing playbook (James O'Keefe)

Tyler: It's real. There's a very nice audio file you can listen to. It's obviously Walker, and his staff has confirmed that it is. What say you now? Still care to claim that Koch has nothing to do with this travesty?!?

Michelle,

I doubt we'll be getting an answer from tyler on that one. I asked at 11:23 this morning, and when he posted at 11:41, he ignored the question. He posted later at 1:11 and has been on other seeds as well. I doubt he will address this one.

Webslinger: I know. I've long suspected that Tyler's little more than a troll. It's their usual MO to post a lot of nonsense with no actual evidence, then run away when they've been called on it. They certainly NEVER admit they're wrong and they NEVER apologize. I've run into Tyler and those like him before.... We can always hope, though, that eventually one or two of them will actually listen to reason, facts, and logic, as opposed to what they're fed by their political masters, Limbaugh, Beck, and Faux Noise. I won't hold my breath, though.... The willfully ignorant and easily led (and proud of it!) are hard to convince with a little thing like the truth ....

Sad, sad commentary on this country if you ask me....

The willfully ignorant and easily led (and proud of it!) are hard to convince with a little thing like the truth ....

I think those people know they are being lied to - and they are just glad someone is out there denigrating the Democrats - some people will follow anyone, as evidenced by Limbaugh's and Beck's audiences - -

I think Walker just pushed on the handle and flushed himself down.

MNniceguy: It's real.

campaign = millions

2 dollar prank call priceless

Someone send that prankster a miller

Reports are Walkers staff has confirmed its Walkers voice. If it is legit it is pretty damning. Doubt you could convict him over anything like this, but it should lead to some investigation of Koch bros. pay for play.

Convict him of what? Most of what he says is in the public record. I would agree it is very unflattering to Walker and it cements him as a right wing ideologue, but didn't we all know that already?

Convict him of what?

Actually, he may be facing charges of campaign finance violations. Just accepting the call is bad enough, but he explicitly requested funds for advertisements to help him and his legislative allies in this battle.

Good luck with that.

You heard the whole thing and repeatedly stated that there is nothing of significance there. You must have heard the part where he sat in the office of the governor and requested financial, political assistance from a wealthy donor. You may say that this type of thing happens all the time in politics, but does that mean we do nothing when it is thrown in our face?

I'll have to go back and listen to it again unless you would like to quote the transcript.

It is a 20 minute long conversation I listened to an hour ago, I don't recall every phrase of it now.

In any case, campaign violations of that sort are not dealt with as criminal matters.

I did hear a few minutes ago that the pranksters may be in legal trouble though.

Convict him of what?

Convicting him in the court of public opinion over his pandering to the Koch brothers as they try to decimate the middle class works for me.

Convict him for fraud. His so called "crisis" should be thoroughly investigated. I think Walker thinks he is the only one that can open a can of "whoop @$s"!

JohnRussell: Exactly what kind of legal trouble could the prankster be in? In any case, it should be just as bad as what Breitbart or O'Keefe got for THEIR "pranks," right? (And as far as I remember, they got exactly NOTHING for their lies.)

I'll have to go back and listen to it again unless you would like to quote the transcript.

Here is where I am getting the info with a partial transcript. Apparently, the remarks occurred around the 4 minute mark.

In any case, campaign violations of that sort are not dealt with as criminal matters.

You're correct. I did not mean to insinuate that he committed a crime, but there are serious issues of impropriety raised.

No legal trouble whatsoever. There is no "false light publication", no libel and no slander involved here....again, IF REAL (which, given the admission by Walker's staff, it appears to be so), it is his own words, his own statements against interest, etc....so WALKER has no legal remedy. As for Koch, he would have to prove DAMAGES in order to win any legal battle. Comparing this to Breitbart/Sharrod, O'Keefe/ACORN is like comparing apples to coconuts.....both of those cases involved misleading editing and false light publication, resulting in people losing their jobs and suffering legitimate damages. Now, the WORST Koch could claim is that his name and brand were tarnished by this....which is a ginormous stretch given that he would have to prove that this 20 minute "prank call" made things worse than his own words and actions and all the media reports and all the protests, etc, etc, etc.....doubtful, especially since many of the claims/reports have the benefit of being true; an absolute defense in a libel/slander case.

What about surreptitious recording?

Only thing is webslinger - Koch buys people. Judges are expensive these though.

douglas,

Alas, that is a jury question.....in America, he certainly has the right to sue, but he'd have to "buy" (as calgal implied) a jury that never heard of him....of course, the costs involved far exceed the damages he'd claim.....besides, to those who support him (John), this incident simply gives him more "street cred". Despite overwhelming proof that the teabaggers have been taken for a ride, they keep getting back on the bus.

As for John, was Koch recorded? No....hence....no.

I was thinking of Walker being illegally recorded.

That doesn't apply here, WI does not require "two party notification", so as long as one party is aware of the recording, it's ok - in short, someone can record a call they're on.....38 states function that way, WI is one of them:

http://www.pimall.com/nais/n.tel.tape.law.html

BUT, if Walker were go to trial for illegal activity in WI, the recording is inadmissible, unless it is proven that he consented to the recording:

The Wisconsin Stats 885.365 Recorded telephone conversation (1) states "Evidence obtained as the result of the use of voice recording equipment for recording of telephone conversations, by way of interception of a communication or in any other number, shall be totally inadmissible in the court of this state in civil actions, except as provided by 968.28 to 968.37." Exceptions are it the party is informed before the recording is informed at the time that the conversation is being recorded and that any evidence thereby obtained may be used in a court of law or such recording is made through a recorder connector proved by the telecommunications utility as defined in WI Stats 968.28 - 968.37 (which is the stat for court ordered wiretaps) which automatically produces a distinctive recorder tone that is repeated at intervals of approximately 15 seconds. Fire department or law enforcement agencies are exempt as are court ordered wire tapes.

http://www.callcorder.com/phone-recording-law-america.htm

Again, neither Walker nor Koch can successfully sue for damages if this were ever to turn into a legal matter.....and neither can successfully claim they were "illegally taped".

Here is where I am getting the info with a partial transcript. Apparently, the remarks occurred around the 4 minute mark.

In any case, campaign violations of that sort are not dealt with as criminal matters.

You're correct. I did not mean to insinuate that he committed a crime, but there are serious issues of impropriety raised.

Walker suggests that some of his guys in the legislature could use some help "getting the message out" that this was good for the state and the community.

I get your drift, but this doesn't sound like an earthshaking charge. Producing a left wing watchdog that thinks it is a big deal isn't earthshaking either.

I get your drift, but this doesn't sound like an earthshaking charge. Producing a left wing watchdog that thinks it is a big deal isn't earthshaking either.

I don't think it's at a Blogoyovich level, but it certainly is inappropriate and possibly a violation.

The bigger picture is that he has cemented his association with this person who immensely helped his campaign and is about to be the recipient of a no-bid sale of public utilities if the bill in question passes. He furthermore exposed himself as a huge dick intent on doing any underhanded thing necessary to advance a policy that has nothing to do with the budget, he has lied about in the recent past, and coincidentally helps the bottom line of the billionaire donor to which he thought he was talking. I don't see how an objective observer could not view that as damning.

Doubt you could convict him over anything like this, but it should lead to some investigation of Koch bros. pay for play.

How can they investigate the Koch Bros., they didn't even make the phone call? You people are so silly sometimes, it just makes me laugh. One of your dimwit buddies manages to get through to the Governor and tape his conversation, unknowlingly I'm sure, and when it comes up a bit fruitless, he tries to salvage what damning power he can get out of it. Pathetic.

By the way, isn't it against the law to tape a conversation without someone's consent?

Nope. Maybe you should have checked that before you slung it out there. Check Wisconsin law.

Deb,

You should also read the other comments on this seed - I cited the appropriate laws 4 posts above yours....on the same thread.

All it takes is one party on the call consenting to and knowing about the taping of a phone call for it to be legal, Deb.

I know, facts get in the way of a good FOX rant...

Did I hear someone mention my avatar?

Squirrel!

That editor had to be so astounded at what he was hearing that he would have been shocked and dismayed, rather than laughing. Whether it started out as a joke, once Walker started talking it became pretty ugly pretty fast.

Walker fell all over himself to volunteer everything thought floating around in his head!

The thing I pay the most attention to is dialogue -- here on NV, in conflict negotiation, family disagreements -- my focus on dialogue drew me into a hobby of writing screenplay. That said, the outstanding thing about this conversation was its one-sidedness. The editor basically said, "How's things going?" and threw in a few "Beautiful!" comments here and there. By the second half, after Walker had already spilled his guts without any prompting, the "reporter" prodded a question here and there to see how far he could make this thing go. But there was never a moment of "framing" the questions, or manipulating the direction of conversation, IT WAS ALL VOLUNTEERED BY WALKER.

Which makes the other outstanding thing Walker's eagerness to "please the master" quite apparent as dialogue of a puppy craving attention. And quite self-important, illusion of grandeur, of comparing himself to Reagan busting unions with the ATC strike. I think they'll take this puppy back to the pet shop...

I was actually pleased that he mentioned the air traffic controller strike as the most important union-busting event, because it's always been my pivotal point of reference for the downfall of our economy. Now when I post my opinions, I can quote the teabagger poster boy claiming that same conclusion!

The amazing thing was that "Koch" didn't have to say anything except "Beautiful" to get Walker to talk and talk and talk. This guy must have an incredible ego and love the sound of his own voice. What a maroon.

The amazing thing was that "Koch" didn't have to say anything except "Beautiful" to get Walker to talk and talk and talk.

I think that's an important point as far as a lawsuit goes. Walker could claim he was defrauded (it's a stretch, but hey, these are Republicans we're talking about) but Koch would have to prove his relationship with Walker was damaged by the impersonation, or that his public image was damaged by broadcasting the conversation. With the fake Koch saying little more than "beautiful" it's really a case where the prankster gave Walker rope enough to hang himself, and Walker took it handily.

IMO, the idea that their may be litigation, by ANYONE, is sheer idiocy. The Koch Brothers are like tarantulas-they live in the dark and shadows, the last thing on Earth they want is their affairs in the light of day.

What would the benefit be to them? A few bucks? After being deposed and sitting in court for 3 months? I'm thinking...not.

Yeah, Walker and Koch aren't going to want to have this thing go to court.

Why don't the Koch Bros. just run the state?

It seems like they already are, and they are working on the country too.

because they need that front man to make a bill which includes the right for him to SELL WISCONSIN STATE PROPERTY WITH OR WITHOUT A BID. and he is selling the wiscosin light and power to the koch brothers, NO BID. quid pro quo. he has admitted its him. its not a hoax. he has an ego for a "C" drop out college record. he just shot himself in the foot. if you listen to it or read it you will hear him LIE that the protestors out there were mostly from another state. they are from wisconsin. we will recall him as soon as his year is up and were praying that he won't destroy our state before then.

One would think that these guys would be smart enough to use code language and safe words when discussing such things. But I guess they are arrogant enough to think they can say all this and face no consequences.

Problem is next time they will know better. And there will be a next time.

The very fact that Walker would speak to someone he believes to be David Koch in which he discusses strategy and conversations with other Republican state governors such as Kasich from Ohio on a union busting agenda demonstrates beyond any denial that the Koch brothers are the wizards behind the curtain attempting (and unfortunately being quite successful) to force their Libertarian values on the rest of the country.

Wake up middle class America! It's your livelyhood at stake!

I believe Walker is on record as being against public sector unions. There is no smoking gun in this tape.

I believe Walker is on record as being against public sector unions. There is no smoking gun in this tape.

You miss the point of this by a million miles. Of course it was no secret he was against unions. What this proves is that the only reason he manufactured this drama was to BREAK THOSE UNIONS. There's no "fiscal crises" there.

There IS a crises in this country when scum like the Koch Brothers have a direct line and unfettered access to the people that make decisions that effect our daily lives. That, thanks to the Right Wingnut Supreme Court that righties gave us. Don't say we never told you so...

John Russell

You've missed the point and who benefits from the right and left agendas. The right advocates, promotes and works for the wealthy, politically connected elitist's agenda. The left advocates, promotes and works for the agenda of the middle class and small business as well as that of the poor, the sick, the elderly and the marginalized citizens in our society.

Which do think is the more honorable? Which do you think is best for the country in the long run? Which do you choose?

Walker has already said that is necessary to prevent future crisis.

Then if there is such a "crisis" why did he deduct Wisconsin's Revenues by giving tax breaks to corporations - worth $140 mill., then turn around and want to make cuts on the public servants pay, benefits and Union rights. That does not make any sense to me. What business throws there future profits out the window, declares a crisis, then demands the workers take a cut. That is NOT doing business to me, he is just proliferating his hidden agenda. I think an investigation should ensue.

I try to choose who I believe is right.

In the case of the Wisconsin unions, I do think they should retain collective bargaining. I also believe they have benefitted from sweetheart deals that the rest of the working people do not get. So I see fault on both sides. But no, the union should not be crushed.

In the tape you hear Walker say that he is fighting for "the people" and against taxpayer money going to lobbyists who lobby for more influence by lobbyists. He of course is talking about union lobbyists having undue influence on legislation that effects the public sector unions. Do you want there to be undue influence in a state legislature favoring one group of workers over others? I don't.

I think Walkers a jerk who has something of a point but in a politically polarized country and state there is no way to amicably resolve these things.

One would think that these guys would be smart enough to use code language and safe words when discussing such things.

That's a bad mental image.

Who are the cowards on this thread that are collapsing comments?

Good for you. This has always been an unappealing tactic of some liberals on Newsvine (occasionally conservatives).

In the tape you hear Walker say that he is fighting for "the people" and against taxpayer money going to lobbyists who lobby for more influence by lobbyists. He of course is talking about union lobbyists having undue influence on legislation that effects the public sector unions. Do you want there to be undue influence in a state legislature favoring one group of workers over others?

Oh please! Once paid by the state, the money the employees pay in union dues is their money, not taxpayer money. Or would you like the state to control how their employees spend their paychecks. Maybe we should use the state police to make sure they only buy state sanctioned products (Koch Industries products of course), or have them submit expense reports detailing how they spent their paycheck.

Also, those union member state employees are also tax payers. As such they have just as much of a right to have their voices heard by their government as any other taxpayer or taxpayer group. That they organize to do so is how democracy works. Are you suggesting that public employees be excluded from participating in the democratic process? What's next, take away their right to vote?

Additionally, if you intend to take away the right of unions to lobby than you must also take that same right away from any individual, company or corporation that has a government contract or does business with the government. They too are spending taxpayer money.

This isn't fascist amerika yet. Almost but not yet.

Hey, a liberal plays the 'fascism' card. How novel.

Union lobbyists receive money from the union to go to the legislature and make deals with the Democratic assemblymen to get more money into the union coffers so that the union can afford to pay the lobbyists to go to the legislature and make deals with the Democratic assemblymen to get more money into the union coffers so that the union can afford to pay the lobbyists to go to the legislature and make deals with the Democratic assemblymen to get more money into the union coffers so that the union can afford to pay the lobbyists.

That is Walkers point, and it is a valid one. If it is wrong for business to lobby for preferential treatment and it is, why isn't it wrong for labor to do it?

The taxpayers are paying for these salaries and benefits, and it is incumbent on the legislators to pay as little as possible in line with fair play and comparable compensation in the private sector. The USA had a recent story that says public sector salaries and benefits are higher than private across job classifications. The average public sector pension is twice as much as the average private sector pension, and many people in private sector don't get any pension at all. Why should the rest of America, vastly made up by normal people having to pay their bills just as the public sector does, have to pay for outsized benefits for these people just because they have lobbyists that cozy up to Democratic legislatures.

I am all for unions, but this is hard to swallow.

That is Walkers point, and it is a valid one.

If it is wrong for business to lobby for preferential treatment and it is, why isn't it wrong for labor to do it?

How is that valid if he's doing it himself? You're saying that it's wrong. Walker's campaign donors don't think so and neither does Walker himself since he's taking money from a corporation. After he accepts their cash he then turns around and reduces their taxes so that they have more money so that they can turn around a put more money into his campaign.

Do I like it? Nope. However, that's why I'm FOR collective bargaining. If corporations can do it why can't the middle class?

So you want everyone else to pay more in taxes in order to support higher pay and benefits for public sector workers? Am I understanding you correctly?

In other words let's say you are a trash collector who works for the state. In order for you to make more, you want to raise taxes on a trash collector who doesn't work for the state. That strikes you as fair?

So you want everyone else to pay more in taxes in order to support higher pay and benefits for public sector workers? Am I understanding you correctly?

If I'm going to pay (yes, I pay taxes) for some corporation to reduce my wages and distort the court system so that I can't seek grievances, jack up the cost of a home by flooding the market with money printed rather freely (figuratively and almost quite accurately )by my same government who will have to step in with my tax dollars and bail them out (screw billions try trillions of dollars) after extracting more money than what the market could bear which causes everyone to take less pay and/lose their jobs, while they (top 1%) aren't made accoutable and not only don't lose their jobs but make bonuses literally from my tax dollars......you damn right I am. Basically if corporate CEO's, Wall Street Bankers, etc can use my tax dollars to benefit to them, why shouldn't I at least get something that's guaranteed to cost less than what they receive daily?

Now I hear what you are going to say "why should everyone pay for what you want?" Well, here's the difference. I'm for using my tax dollars to help as many people as possible (the middle class; which I am apart of) while what Walker's doing is using my tax dollars to help the few (top 1%) while additionally screwing many (the middle class). That's the difference.

So you would screw the lower middle class in order to as best you can keep pace with the upper class thieves? That is interesting. Evidently people all just want whatever they can get their hands on.

People outside the public sector have been giving back salary and benefits for at least two years now, but public sector unions don't want to give back anything, and your answer is because wall st. bankers screwed you? Didn't they also screw the people who have lost salary and benefits the last two years? I understand you think you are in a union so that makes you immune, but you are in a union that is in an industry that is paid for by the taxpayers. You have had your contracts made through insider dealing done by people (politicians) who don't pay the bills. As a public sector worker, your salary and benefits should be not one penny more than comparable people make on the outside. Otherwise you are stealing from the public.

So you would screw the lower middle class in order to as best you can keep pace with the upper class thieves? That is interesting. Evidently people all just want whatever they can get their hands on.

Nope. For some reason you skipped over this part so I'll bold it "Well, here's the difference. I'm for using my tax dollars to help as many people as possible (the middle class; which I am apart of) while what Walker's doing is using my tax dollars to help the few (top 1%) while additionally screwing many (the middle class). That's the difference."

People outside the public sector have been giving back salary and benefits for at least two years now, but public sector unions don't want to give back anything

That's incorrect. Even though it might boost your position, please be accurate.

Didn't they also screw the people who have lost salary and benefits the last two years?

Yup. That's why I said I'm looking for the government to support the middle class.

As a public sector worker, your salary and benefits should be not one penny more than comparable people make on the outside. Otherwise you are stealing from the public.

Huh? Where in the world do I say that? I said I would like to. I work in a "Right to Work" State where unionizing isn't possible. I rather incorrectly said "while what Walker's doing is using my tax dollars" which is not correct as I don't live in WI.

I thought you were saying or implying that you are a state employee somewhere, although not necessarily in Wisconsin. I apologize if I misunderstood you.

As a public sector worker, your salary and benefits should be not one penny more than comparable people make on the outside. Otherwise you are stealing from the public.

In many cases, public employees do not earn more than private workers of similar experience and education.

In Wisconsin, they were shown to earn 5-8% less than their private counterparts.

As a public sector worker, your salary and benefits should be not one penny more than comparable people make on the outside. Otherwise you are stealing from the public.

So are you saying that a public school teacher who commonly deal with class size of 30 to 45 students should make the same as a private sector teacher who only have 10 to 15 student per class. Yeah thats fair!

Maybe the public school teacher should get paid per student what the private school teacher gets paid per student. That'd be fair!

So if the private sector teacher gets $50k for teaching 15 students, the public school teacher would get paid $100k for teaching 30.

So if the private sector teacher gets $50k for teaching 15 students, the public school teacher would get paid $100k for teaching 30.

Yeah that would go over big : )

Personalty I would rather see them hire twice as many teachers and reduce class size.

blaze1024 - - - The difference being Blaze RE: #16.22 ... that "private school teachers" are paid by the payment of tuition and not tax collected money. The parents actually pay more for private schools because the curriculum is better and the teachers too. The teachers have to be effective and show their worth or they can be fired which is not the case with a Public Sector Union teacher with tenure. The private schools hire the best teachers, which in turn is why they should be paid more ... and are.

The parents actually pay more for private schools because the curriculum is better and the teachers too.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but most private schools are absolutely horrible. They don't hire the best teachers, because they can hire people without certification and pay them less. A private high school is not like a private college.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but most private schools are absolutely horrible. They don't hire the best teachers, because they can hire people without certification and pay them less. A private high school is not like a private college.

How do you justify that against the significantly higher test scores:

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pdf/studies/2006461.pdf

Even the most partisan report I could find, Here still only downplays the fact that while equal in other categories, private schools still tops public in SAT scores. And that's after they massage the numbers.

But, I digress, because the fact that private schools are hiring teachers without certification and pay them less we should find results that support that - not some anecdotal partisan opinion. At the very least we should see public schools (with their certifications and higher pay) outperforming the private schools. That's simply not the case, at best they're equals.

I will provide one bit of evidence, and you may draw from it what you wish.

Because of the social and religious ties of many private schools, their dropout rates are far diminished in comparison with public schools.

I will posit this: remaining in school is the largest driver of success in education. You're witnessing the effect of the socialization of peers, not the effect of the skill of faculty.

Because of the social and religious ties of many private schools, their dropout rates are far diminished in comparison with public schools.

How then do explain test scores? Students who drop out do not take the SAT. Further, this is nothing more than anecdotal opinion. You provide no evidence to assert your claim that there's any difference between social and religious ties between private and public education.

I will posit this: remaining in school is the largest driver of success in education. You're witnessing the effect of the socialization of peers, not the effect of the skill of faculty.

As I stated above, that would definitely account for graduation rates, but, not performance testing. Further, you would think that since there are twice as many personalized coaches at public school over private schools, they would more than make up for it. But, they don't, do they? You would think their superior education and certifications would put their students at a significant advantage in learning testable material. But, they don't, do they?

I will provide one bit of evidence, and you may draw from it what you wish.

You provide no evidence. You provide your opinion on a matter void of any factual support. Teachers want to complain about not making enough money? I say fire them and hire the private school teachers at the same wages. They're doing a tangibly better job with worse circumstances.

I am not the mediator here, but I think you guys can do a better job at disagreeing without being disagreeable.

You would think their superior education and certifications would put their students at a significant advantage in learning testable material. But, they don't, do they?

They do.

I'm not able to post links; but if you search "The effects of teacher education on test scores" you'll find this:

In mathematics and science,
teacher subject-specific training has a
significant impact on student test scores in those
subjects (see columns (2) and (4)). A teacher with a
BA in mathematics, or an MA in mathematics, has a
statistically significant positive impact on students’
achievement relative to teachers with no advanced
degrees or degrees in non-mathematics subjects.

I'm not able to post links; but if you search "The effects of teacher education on test scores" you'll find this:

Aye, so what you're saying is that private schools do indeed hire the best of the best teachers who have degrees. And while they may or may not be certified, they still make $10,000-15,000 less than their public school counterparts. So you're either disproving your comment:

They don't hire the best teachers, because they can hire people without certification and pay them less

Or you're disputing even the most partisan study (to the opposite of my position) I was able to find Here, where private schools far outperform public schools.

Over 60 percent of all schooling expenditures at the K–12 level are devoted to instructional costs which consist overwhelmingly of teacher salaries and benefits

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs97/97535l.pdf

Bottom line, Private schools perform better than public schools. Public school teachers make more than their private school counterparts. You attempt to justify that by saying it's because they have a higher degrees and certification. However, they still significantly lag behind in testing.

Private schools are not:

most private schools are absolutely horrible. They don't hire the best teachers, because they can hire people without certification and pay them less.

Or, if that's how you want to characterize them - I'd shutter to think of how you describe public schools.

I'm not saying that private schools don't perform better. I'm saying that there are conditions present in private schools that are not present at public schools. It has nothing to do with the teachers. As demonstrated in the research I cited, a higher degree results in higher test scores.

Matt in MN - - - You won't get many "up votes" here by stating and providing truth on this seed. Most of the people who post here are not interested in hearing "the truth" ... rather they are 1.) wanting to justify their indefensable position ... or 2.) just here to "bash" the Governor for doing what is right in limiting the Unions right to "collectively bargain" what is fiscally unsound and unfair to the private sector.

Thanks however for getting involved in the discussion and providing proof as to what you are saying. You get my "vote up".

Like I said , it doesn't make him look good, but when it's all said and done this will amount to very little.

You're probably right about that.

It seems that based on comments made during the phone conversation there is a call for an investigation into possible campaign finance violations. Whether or not it goes anywhere remains to be seen but it can't do Walker much good.

It sounds like posters are talking apples and oranges so far. I can't believe I'm agreeing with John Russell, but yes, I think LEGALLY this is a blip. Nothing to prosecute, no criminal or ethics violation, no repercussions. Nothing he hasn't previously stated he wanted to do.

But POLITICALLY, I think it's huge, his reputation with his voting district especially. (1) I doubt there'll be any significant addition to the numbers who support him, no gain. (2) But there'll be a significant loss, those disillusioned, or who only really cast a vote against the other guy because their immediate gratification didn't get fixed. They've gotten a better look at the person now, not the slogans. (3) Also this will probably drum up the previously apathetic, who will get to the voting booth next time to vote against him. Again, politically, it will affect his relationships with other politicians willing to be connected to him, and to Koch by default. As far as term of office, he just got sworn in last month, and he's got 4 yrs before re-election, and lots can happen. But in the case of recall -- the above factors could well boot him out.

Back to the legal points -- the taped conversation didn't expose anything he didn't previously stand for. What it DID expose was his motives for following that path (aligning his state with the Koch dynasty) and his methods for achieving it (e.g., lying to the Democratic State Senators). It's not the legal points, but the sleaziness that will suffer a backlash on him, IMHO.

storyartist - - - Yes, it's much like the sleaziness that the "left" accused the "right" of in producing the video-tape evidence of wrongdoing re: ACORN and Planned Parenthood.

Yes, it's much like the sleaziness that the "left" accused the "right" of in producing the video-tape evidence of wrongdoing re: ACORN and Planned Parenthood.

You've been dying to make this comparison, but the only comparison would be if the "left" were using this to argue that the entire state of Wisconsin is sleazy because of what Walker was caught on tape doing.

After all, you are using the recorded (albeit highly edited) actions of a single person to condemn an entire national organization with tens of thousands of employees in the ACORN and PP cases.

No, Ron, that's a child's argument that links "what I want" to "but somebody else gets to have it."

What was the wrongdoing in ACORN videotape and Planned Parenthood attempts? The wrongdoing was producing a false tape, edited and manipulated to create a false illusion that something happened, that didn't happen. Same was true with Breitbart's Shirley Sherrod tape, where her story was an embracing of race relations, but edited to create the opposite message. A false tape.

Nothing false about Scott Walker's revelations. No tricky editing to cut-and-paste and change his own words around. Not even any reporter's usual guiding the story by interruption and redirecting where the conversation is headed. Just turn on the tape and roll, and Walker offered up everything recorded. An accurate tape.

false tape .................accurate tape

There's your difference.

Next would be the reporter's method of gaining access. Both pretended to be someone they were not. That's the only similarity. And even on that point -- the ACORN duo invented a fabrication of wrongdoing (which the officer collected info from them and reported to authorities). Scott Walker was not tricked into a fabrication. There was no pretending to bribe him, or pretending to do something illegal to influence a vote. No cape to wave in front of the bull, so to speak. No fabrication -- just listening to Walker brag. After all, his original intention was just to prove that Walker would accept a call from Koch but not from the Democrat Senators. Once he got thru, he didn't have a plan. At least, he never vocalized any plan. It was ALL WALKER. Walker was in charge of the story from that point.

Apples and oranges with the sleazy ACORN story.

storyartist - - - Your denial of the validity of the ACORN and Planned Parenthood tapes are laughable. The actions of each instance were not coerced (you notice the employee's all had immediate access and readily available information in their desks ready to assist the people with nefarious intent). No one put words into their mouths or doctored the tape to make them say something incriminating.

The very fact that people were fired (howbeit AFTER the exposure) attests to the fact that the instances were a factual depiction of intent.

Ron----Again, laughable would be directly proportionate to the strength and validity of proof. Sadly, your argument loses on that count.

But I don't argue with drunks on barstools, and I have no interest in what you're selling. Try the next guy down the line ....

storyartist - - - Yes, I know ... You don't want to hear or consider the truth. It's typical and revealing (you don't stand alone) Typical leftist philosophy.

Why do people always throw that word "philosophy" around? Most people aren't educated enough to actually understand philosophy, let alone have their own.

#19.12----You know, I write dialogue. And study dialogue. And if you tried to publish your silly little taunts, you'd be accused of plagiarism because they are exact quotes of every other silly na-na-na-NA-na that I use in children's dialogue. In my book, truth is not a synonym for your reasoning. Sorry -- I'm sticking with the sober conversation -- since you continue the silliness, I'm just moving you to Ignore. Look -- poof! -- your comments are now hidden under the Ignore Author bar.

Yes storyartist - - - It is easier to believe lies and excuses if you blind yourself to the truth. Such an intelligent thing to do if you want to ignore anything that does not fall into your distorted view of things. It is a typical left-wing acquiescence.

Good-Luck with that.

Do you not blind yourself to the truth by simplifying the world into types?

SA Hornick - - - No ...

Your denial of the validity of the ACORN and Planned Parenthood tapes are laughable. The actions of each instance were not coerced (you notice the employee's all had immediate access and readily available information in their desks ready to assist the people with nefarious intent). No one put words into their mouths or doctored the tape to make them say something incriminating.

Naw I think what's laughable is finally that Scott Walker has done us Liberals such a huge favor. We used to have to try and prove the corporate cancer of overpaid CEO's getting rich off of the middle class who actually build the cars, that actually pave the streets, that actually feed the poor, and probably the only group (middle class) that actually takes care of it's own bills, while actually finding funding to care for someone or some group other than itself.

The middle class, that is informed has now more than enough evidence of the Conservative corporate crap which sponsors the weak arguments that get blown up every day by us the Liberals, by us the middle class, by us the Democrats and Independents, by us the gay, straight, and transgendered who know how to take care of even the people who do not agree with us. I have commented on Newsvine for years. I am not apart of any corporation or group entity, but finally by watching the supporters of WI I have faith that America can become greater than the conservative uninformed, the bigoted, and the intentionally deceptive.

There is nothing positive that any Republican has ever done within the last 15 years that is positive for America's masses. Slowly but surely America's desire to become greater than any country before it has once again awaken itself and I am thoroughly elated.

Conservatives and Republicans, if you want to have a debate of corporations vs. the unions I am more than happy (and likely others) would gladly welcome this discussion with you. However, being a good natured Liberal I will warn you this is a battle you will lose. There aren't enough misinformed middle class members who will cut off their own arm or appendage to support a CEO who will kill their own jobs later. You will lose the battle of blaming the poor, the unfortunately downtrodden , the gay, bi, liberally straight or transgendered for all of this country's woes. It is the fault of you, not of anyone who is without a voice.

As I write this I had done my homework and was preparing to prove Poltifact's misstatement of Walker's actions which blew a hole in WI's budget wrong. I tried to stop Ripley8 for admitting something that yet another misinformed conservative tried to post. Well Rachel Maddow beat me tonight. (Thank God-- yes I am religious...rather spiritual). Look at their own site, which posts the tax cuts that Walker passed. It will be enlightening if you research.

Note to Liberals stand up for what you believe in. We have to clean house within our own party or group of people for those who have strayed. But do not fear in beating down these corporate shills for what they are: miserable brothers and sisters who know not what they do. Bring the facts like we constantly do and we will show them the correct path for making America everything it should be and more.

We should be and will be the only country which excepts it's poor, it's misinformed, it's gay, liberally straight, bi, transgendered, and even it's rich to a promise land that every evil soul fears: a populous that it truly free.... Good night.

dagnabbit *is. I need more editing time. LOL

Kc77 - - - and you think that the answer that what we "the middle class" people in America want is for your Liberal and increasingly socialistic agenda? ... THINK AGAIN. Your agenda is a failed solution to any economy and only makes things worse for the prosperity of the country and the people who are in it. Prosperous economies are not built on leftist or socialistic ideas or ideals.

It is a failed solution to any economy and only makes things worse for the prosperity of the country and the people who are in it. Prosperous economies are not built on leftist or socialistic agendas.

Who did we bail out to the tune of trillions of dollars again? Unions or Wall Street? Bring it Ron the numbers are on my side on this one.

and you think that the answer that what we "the middle class" people in America want is for your Liberal and increasingly socialistic agenda? ... THINK AGAIN. Your agenda is a failed solution to any economy and only makes things worse for the prosperity of the country and the people who are in it. Prosperous economies are not built on leftist or socialistic ideas or ideals.

BRAVO!!! HOORAY!!! I applaud you for a perfect, textbook example of hyper-partisan, dogmatic nonsense. That's not an easy thing to pull off, but yours was magnificent.

Kc77 et al - - - For beginners, name a country who has had state socialism at its core who has remained econmically strong and an innovator in technology and durable goods along with religious and personal freedom for as long as America.

Kc77 et al - - - For beginners, name a country who has had state socialism at its core who has remained econmically strong and an innovator in technology and durable goods along with religious and personal freedom.

So now we' re down (rather quickly) to the tired worn out conservative crap of changing the subject. Bring the numbers, the numbers of just how much money we spent on corporate Wall Street crap? How much have we spent Ron? Trillions, repairing the damage done to the country as a whole. You wanna to blame the middle class for corporate shill crap? FINE. Let's do it.

Like I said Walker did us favor. Well now the numbers are so skewed many of the true people who have bankrupted our economy have no place to go if they remain truthful.

Again, how many jobs or money has been lost due to corporate greed? We literally watched the banking system destroy itself and then use TAX PAYER MONEY to refund what IT had lost. All without a single upper echelon figure paying a price (aside from Madoff). No jail time, no lost compensation.

The audacity is astounding.

OK, Kc77, I see from your block quote that he's waving the magician's cape to derail the topic. So before douglasq intervenes to shake his finger or delete comments, I opened up a tab for the new "Off-Topic" group, where anyone can continue tangent conversation.

Find comment #1 on this page. Above that is the "jump to discussion page" to navigate pages. Above that is the line now showing 3 tabs: (1) Public Discussion -- this one (2) Off-Topic (3) Start New Discussion Group. Click on the 2nd tab, and you can off-topic to your heart's content.

Your 1st comment will send an alert to Viki to join the group (she's fast) and once it goes thru, your comment appears. You only need be processed this once, then you'll always be a member that can use the off-topic function.

Douglasq -- that work for you?

SA Hornick - - - No ...

It might be beneficial to actually put some thought into your answer. You are blind to complication, and the truth is: @!$%#'s complicated.

For beginners, name a country who has had state socialism at its core ... for as long as America.

... your proposition cannot be answered in any case. Socialism as an idea hasn't been around "for as long as America" so no country could even have had state socialism at its core for that long. It is like asking for a CD manufacturing company that has been around "for as long as America."

comment #19.27 reported inflammatory! Derailment of topic. Refusal to accept option of off-topic tab to accommodate the derailment.

Thus, trollish behavior.

If you heard I was going to talk to them that's the only reason why... But I'm not negotiating.

Glad we got that out in the open, so that everybody in the country can know that negotiating with Republicans is a complete waste of time, and they'll use even the act of negotiation to screw you over. Republicans aren't interested in discussion. They aren't interested in debate. They aren't interested in negotiation. They aren't interested in compromise. The only thing Republicans want is to get everything that they want, however they can get it.

Do. Not. Trust. Them.

(Really, this shouldn't be any kind of surprise to anybody who remembers the health care debate, when we made concession after concession and compromise after compromise and didn't get a single Republican vote; instead it's been a year of constant attacks and complaints.)

It will be interesting to see the response from the Dem senators on this one. Now that they know what he has in mind, will they bother going back to Wisconsin before a recall is available in January?

He can't have talked to the Kochs too much or he would have known it was not their voice on the other end of the phone. I'll see how it runs in the state media and the contacts I have there.

Tyler

When a skunk is uncovered all the deodorant in the world won't cover it up the stink.

Bootstaps

The Dems in WI have a separate phone with strobe lighting when their Union boss calls.

Democrats support the working middle class and a livable wage. Wow. You've uncovered a real conspiracy.

Boots: Any evidence of this? You know, like a recording or something?!? LOL. Man, you people will say anything to convince yourselves of the "moral" high ground ... even when you have none....

Chillax donkeys. Do you have audio tape that proves anything?

I think I saw that phone on a comic strip while I was waiting for a doctor appointment.

To the Bat Phone.

Daniel

of capitalism but in a higher synthesis. It is found in a higher synthesis that combines the truths of both."

Great quote. And still it will only work if that higher synthesis values not money but the environment and the talents of each individual.

Time for somebody to prank call Kasich...

These teachers are not overpaid and are not getting rich on the taxpater's dime as some Republican governors would like everyone to believe.

This link only gives details on salaries. Health and retirement benefits for government workers can make the figure for total compensation go up as much as 50%. That's why there's so much focus on this aspect of the issue.

I thought I had also heard that Walker was still prepared to allow the union to bargain collectively on the matter of salary, but not benefits and pension. I believe the thinking there is that current salaries are a cost you can cope with in the current budget, but pensions are tougher burden.

This link only gives details on salaries. Health and retirement benefits for government workers can make the figure for total compensation go up as much as 50%. That's why there's so much focus on this aspect of the issue.

This study shows that with benefits factored in, the total salary for WI public employees is 5-8% less than their private counterparts.

I was watching Megyn Kelly, and she did have the story. She also said someone might be in legal trouble over the recording, and I assume she means the prankster. She hyped that for later in the show but I did not see her get back to the story.

Found it now. I'm surprised they ran with it. I guess it's just too big a story to ignore.

If it were a big story it would be all over the news all day. I'm not seeing it.

This is definitely an interesting story and a negative one for Walker, but it will not amount to a game changer by any means.

It's out there John, change the channel and you might see it. Maybe the networks will cover it tonight, CNN and MSNBC will definitely say something from 4pm CST on, and you mentioned Fox already mentioned it....and despite her "tease" (also known as a deflection from the legitimate issues involved) about the legal trouble, it ain't coming....Just because Fox is burying it and circling the wagons does not mean there's no coverage of the story....there is, and there will be additional coverage of the ramifications....AND, you better believe the local stations are covering it in WI.

I have seen it on Fox today, and I'm sure starting right about now MSNBC will be running it every 5 minutes. I guess it's big to politics junkies, but I don't see the 'average' person caring much about this, and some of them will have sympathy for Walker because they will think he was tricked.

If I was asked a simple yes or no question "is this a big story" I'd have to say no.

No, in comparison to massive snowstorms, massive protests around the world, the potential fall of Khadafi, the price of oil going through the roof, the looming federal government shutdown, the protests in WI, Daniels backing down in Indiana, Democrats denying quorum in TWO states, etc, etc, and the schit going on in any given individual's personal life, no, it's not THAT important....hence why it hasn't been covered with "enthusiasm"....yet....way to answer your own question there.....

Fair enough, but yet you have people who here on Newsvine and elsewhere chortling about how Walker has flushed his career down the toilet. They are making a bigger deal of it than it is.

two separate issues.....Walker played his hand and his career likely IS over. He lied to the people of his state, and is continuing to lie about his agenda - which is NOT balancing the budget, but busting the unions and ensuring Republican electoral dominance. That is NOT what the people of Wisconsin voted for. Now, this recording shows how "comfy" he is with Koch industries, who stands to benefit quite significantly from this budget "crisis" in WI - specifically as it pertains to the state selling power plants. This story does have legs and it does have staying power, as I said earlier, not because of this particular event, but from the RAMIFICATIONS involved....this is potentially one more snowball that becomes the avalanche.....such as the recall of the governor in January, or the impeachment of the governor, or exposure of election/finance shenanigans by the Koch brothers, etc, etc, etc.

Walker played his hand and his career likely IS over. He lied to the people of his state, and is continuing to lie about his agenda - which is NOT balancing the budget, but busting the unions and ensuring Republican electoral dominance.

Speaking of, I just found something else that was instresting...

(Editor’s note: After this item was posted, a conversation surfaced between Walker and a person impersonating Walker campaign contributor and industrialist David Koch. In an audiotape released Feb. 23, 2011, Walker compares his union plan to a history-making act and portrayed his union plan as a "bomb."

Walker aides acknowledge the tape is real, but say Walker simply was saying privately what he has said publicly about his budget-repair bill.

Of a meeting with his cabinet, Walker in the tape says: We talked about what we were going to do, how we were going to do it. We had already built plans up. This was kind of the last hurrah before we dropped the bomb.")

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/feb/22/scott-walker/wisconsin-gov-scott-walker-says-he-campaigned-his-/

It's an instresting contrast to what Walker's aide have stated to what Politifact found in this claim...

Your reference point is from someone who is into the details of the story. A year from now most Americans will still have never heard of the Koch Bros.

The bottom line with this tape is that there really isn't anything 'incriminating' about it as regards Walker, and certainly nothing we haven't heard or could have surmised about him previously.

And I don't know if the Democrats want to get into 'investigations' into private conversations between politicians and their big supporters either. I'll bet you don't see any congressman or Senators or Governors jumping into this.

No, Walker is not going to go to jail because of this....so, it's not "incriminating", HOWEVER it shines a bright light on his warped ideas and his plans, and you better believe the people of Wisconsin are having MAJOR second thoughts about this guy and the GOP in that state are more than a little "concerned".

As for your attempt at deflection on Democrats and their private conversations:

1. This was PUBLISHED and therefore is not a PRIVATE conversation.

2. If you don't see a reason why there COULD BE investigations, there's no point trying to discuss this rationally with you.

3. In WISCONSIN, there is a non-partisan agency that will be doing the investigation.....it will report its findings to the state legislature....and it MAY or MAY NOT take action.

We shall see, but this seems to be dying down already. Outside some 'usual suspect' blogs and heavily biased tv shows, it never really took off.

Dying down in right-wing conversation. Not so much on progressive or union conversation.

Again John, you need to change the channel....despite what you may think, the sun does not rise and set out of Megyn Kelly's ass.