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Everyone thinks of changing the world, but few think of changing themselves.
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Member Since: 12/2008
Member Since: 12/2008
995 Comments
PrintHate In America. Not Much Has Changed.
News Type: Opinion — Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:07 PM EST
The March on Selma
The Stonewall Riots, Greenwich Village
© A. Macarthur
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You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.
You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!
South Pacific Rodgers & Hammerstein
As a New Yorker, I have always felt comfortable with my cosmopolitan idea that hate in America was an anomaly . I felt I lived in a fairly progressive country, that had grown from the civil rights movement and WWII. As a country, I was confident that we all knew that hate is bad, that hate is evil. Then I was introduced to the world of news groups and my illusion of an evolved America was blown. It wasn't that I was naive that hate was out there, I knew that it was. But I didn't think that it was as pervasive as it is. Many articles that I read contain "information", that in actuality is an attempt to spread hate. All kinds of hate. This rude awakening that my assumptions were wrong about America is shocking. So I decided to investigate the facts about hate, and it confirmed my worst fears. I found out that very little has changed about hate in the US. All that has happened is it went underground, and how it is reported depends on the news service what what editorials you choose to read.
According to U.S. Department of Justice, A hate crime, also known as a bias crime, is a criminal offense committed against a person, property, or society that is motivated, in whole or in part, by the offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or ethnicity/national origin.Although reporting hate crimes is different from location to location it seems that hate crimes are alive and well. And not only do they exist, but the same groups that were always targeted in the past are still targeted now. It seems that the more things seem to change, the more they don't. The latest 2008 statistics on Hate Crime in the U.S. is the highest for the following groups:
- Anti- Black 2,876
- Sexual Orientation 1,297
- Anti-Jewish 1,013
- Anti-Hispanic 561
- Anti-Islamic 130
Of all hate crimes committed in the U.S. based on motivation :
- 51.0% were victimized because of the offender’s bias against a race.
- 17.9% were targeted because of a bias against a religious belief.
- 17.6% were victims because of a bias against a particular sexual orientation.
- 12.7% were targeted because of a bias against an ethnicity/national origin.
- 1.0 % were targeted because of disability
Or given by percentage of all crimes based on race, religion, national origin or sexual preference:
- 72.9% of racial bias crimes were anti-black.
- 66.1% of religious bias crimes were anti-Jewish with an additional 7.5 % of religious bias crimes being anti-Islamic.
- 64.6% of ethnic or nationality crimes were anti-Hispanic.
- 57.5% sexual orientation crimes were anti-male homosexual.
Information and further information found at these sites:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2008/index.html
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/hate_crime/index.html
So what have we just learned. Well, despite the fact that we have elected our first African American President, the most amount of hate crime is directed towards blacks. Of all hate crimes in the US 72.9% was directed towards African Americans. Seems that some of us missed the civil rights movement. It also seems that very little was learned from the Holocaust. Jews are still the most hated religious group. And despite 9/11 and the "War of Terrorism", Americans harbor less ill will towards Muslims then expected, although they are the next largest religious group to be discriminated towards, and therefore merit mention. I have read sweeping negative generalizations about both these faiths, whether it's Bernie Madoff as a role model for all Jews or the constant mentioning of President Obama's middle name, as if his heritage alone, made him a danger to the American way of life. The most unnoticed group, but have the second most bias crimes, are homosexuals. Not sure? How many times does the American public have do discuss gay unions? In regards to immigrant populations, it came as little surprise that Hispanics are the largest group discriminated against, given the current debates over immigration laws regarding Mexicans.
So what have we learned. Apparently not much. It seems that America still hate almost the same way it did since after WWII. We has learned little from the Civil Rights Movement. And now as I read editorials on news venues, I can recognize with certainty when they are written with hate in mind. I no longer have to guess at the intent of the writer. I have the statistics to back up my assumptions. Now you do, too. And although the actual numbers of bias crimes that are acted out on might not seem astronomical, it is only a small reflection of what is going on in the minds and hearts of Americans. And much like the crime of rape, these statistics are probably vastly under reported. I guess we were carefully taught.
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| Hate crime legislation perpetuates injustice | DanaR-1273622 | Wed Dec 16 | 1 |
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{"commentId":11213787,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
It is so sad that we have learned nothing from our past.
The CoH will be strictly enforced. This will be a civil discussion.
{"commentId":11213787,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"perrie"}
- 35 votes
#1 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:33 AM EST{"commentId":11214509,"authorDomain":"sarahlove"}
Hate is real. I have lived it here in the south. Ive been told by loved family memebers if I were to ever marry a black man, my children would not be loved. My mother on the other hand does not care one way or another. She remembers the national guard surrounding her high school and being terrified. She tried to teach us not to hate.
Not too much has changed since those days. I still hear racial slurs. Crazy.
I went to college in Montgomery, AL. I used to visit the civil rights museum and monuments. I remember a time standing on the capital steps and looking at the street ahead wondering what it must have been like during the march from selma. I invisoned the large amounts of people marching up to the capital steps. It gave me chills. But, I feel blessed that I wasnt around for those days.
Thank you again for another great article.
{"commentId":11214509,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"sarahlove"}
- 30 votes
{"commentId":11218504,"authorDomain":"egoode"}
What has been bothering me most of all is that whenever someone says "That's racist" or "It's because he's [black|jewish|muslim|etc.]" people on the opposing side immediately go into a defensive stance and say "Why is it always about race?"
I'm married to a black woman, and I can tell you I've "Opened mouth - inserted foot" more times than I care to count - simply because I didn't know any better. NOT because I was being out-and-out racist.
The fact is that White America often doesn't even realize that what they say is offensive (although many times they do) - it's no different than the first time I walked into a high-end store with my wife. When I was walking with her, we got excellent service. If she walked in without me, she was immediately shadowed by somebody (and not to offer help). I never noticed it until I saw it happen to ME and MY family.
That doesn't even touch on the people who are being outright racists. I'm throwing Glenn Beck in this group for right now - because until he can talk in a civil manner about race, he belongs there. (Deep seated hatred my left butt-cheek).
The problem is the same one we've faced for decades - people start hating what they fear or don't understand. They start hating someone that they can classify as "other" or something less than human. They do it for the same reasons bullies in elementary school pick on somebody - because they can't see their own self-worth unless it's put in terms of superiority to someone else. They can't see beyond their own fears and failings, and need to put the blame on somebody else.
The sad fact is there are no easy solutions to this - simply quashing people who espouse hatred only makes them believe we're proving their points. Trying to prove that their fears are unfounded only makes them more suspicious. Unfortunately, in a tough economy they find fertile ground for inflaming hatred.
The best solution that I can think of is that we must all stand united - let them know that it's NOT acceptable to act in a hateful manner, even if they're allowed to believe what they believe. It's not acceptable to be violent toward anyone - regardless of their assertions. It's the one case where I believe Ghandi's method of non-violent resistance is MOST effective. It's the one tool that takes away any of their perceived moral high-ground, painful though it may be.
{"commentId":11218504,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"egoode"}
- 32 votes
{"commentId":11218575,"authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}
In your article, you say the following:
The most unnoticed group that is bias crimes against homosexuals, which has the same amount of discrimination as does that of religion. Not sure? How many times does the American public have do discuss gay unions? In regards to immigrant populations, it came as little surprise that Hispanics are the largest group discriminated against, given the current debates over immigration laws regarding Mexicans.
So what have we learned. Apparently not much. It seems that America still hate almost the same way it did since after WWII. We has learned little from the Civil Rights Movement. And now as I read editorials on news venues, I can recognize with certainty when they are written with hate in mind. I no longer have to guess at the intent of the writer. I have the statistics to back up my assumptions. Now you do, too. And although the actual numbers of bias crimes that are acted out on might not seem astronomical, it is only a small reflection of what is going on in the minds and hearts of Americans. And much like the crime of rape, these statistics are probably vastly under reported. I guess we were carefully taught.
There is little question in my mind that you are young and are extrapolating from the statistics you cite, which I find very low indeed, to some overwhelming hate in the US. This is simply not true. Worse, your examples fail to show hate. Although you refer to immigration, the targets are rarely just Mexicans. And if Mexicans are a part of the debate, it has nothing to do with the fact that they are Hispanic. It has to do with our law.
Opposition to gay marriage could involve hate. But I feel certain that many who oppose this are not homophobic or haters .
Finally, go back to the 1950s and 1960s when we had tons of racist incidents, or even earlier when this country had slaves. Are we worse off today? Even Obama says no. We have legislation and a huge change in racism by the welcome and victorious fight of great people who risked life and limb for all of us who are against racism and who are minorities in the US.
Does racism exist? Yes. But I guarantee you that we have a huge and growing number of people who are absolutely fine with interracial marriage, and even more who are advocates of anti-racism than at any time before in our history.
The issue about racism starts with those who find that it is still as bad as it was or worse. It is simply not true. Look at our treatment of famous athletes, the prevalence of minorities in the news and especially CNN and in the movies.
Prejudice like it was? No improvement? Rubbish.
{"commentId":11218575,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"politicalcenter"}
- 18 votes
{"commentId":11220413,"authorDomain":"bad4"}
I'm married to a black woman, and I can tell you I've "Opened mouth - inserted foot" more times than I care to count - simply because I didn't know any better. NOT because I was being out-and-out racist.
Oh tell me about it. I was with a black woman and she said, "I need to go tan." To which I replied, "Why? I like your tan." You could have heard a pin drop. It wasn't meant racist, but apparently, it was taken that way.
{"commentId":11220413,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"bad4"}
- 19 votes
{"commentId":11223511,"authorDomain":"Jake-413451"}
Of all hate crimes in the US 72.9% was directed towards African-Americans
At first I had a very snarky comment. I've changed it though and am going to assume the best of intentions and offer some constructive criticism instead, and another way of looking at this epidemic.
51% of all hate crimes are racially motivated and 72.9% of those are directed against African-Americans it means that 72.9% of the 51% is the number you want. It isn't 72.9%, it's 37.2% of all hate crimes were directed against African-Americans, based on their being African-American (or their attacker thinking they were actually). Without the qualifier of "racially motivated bias" the 72.9% isn't accurate as presented.
From the same source (the 2008 #s) we discover there were just under 10,000 reported hate crimes (this includes all groups not just racial bias) in a country of just over 304,000,000 that means in any particular year the overall chance of being a victim of a hate crime would be about 1:30,400.
Not bad odds actually. In 2006 your odds of dying, not just being injured, but dying, from certain things were much worse: (by cause 1 in) http://www.nsc.org/news_resources/injury_and_death_statistics/Pages/TheOddsofDyingFrom.aspx
- Car Accident 6,584 (almost five times more likely)
- Dying from a fall 4,077 (more than seven times as likely)
- Accidental poisoning 10,837 (about three times as likely)
- Intentional self-harm overall 8,960 (almost four times as liekly)
- Intentional self-harm from a firearm 17,672 (almost twice as likely)
That description in parenthesis is the number of times a randomly selected individual was more likely to die from one of those events in any given year than to be the victim of a hate crime. Think about that, any given individual was nearly twice as likely to kill them self with a handgun than to be a victim of a hate crime. Of course Citizen X grabbed at random is twice as likely to be a victim of a hate crime than to accidentally drown.
Yes, clearly this is an epidemic of such epic proportions.
But hey, maybe you're right, maybe hate crimes have become an epidemic, so to speak. What do we know of the perpetrators of these acts? As you claim, and don't back up, things have remained unchanged since WWII, yet you use figures from 2004 and 2008, don't you think numbers from say, less than 60 years distant from the historical event you mention might be more appropriate to compare the rates of these actions?
Well of the known offenders, using your 2008 reference and the census bureau (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html)
- 61.1% were "white" (odd when they make up 70% of the US pop)
- 20.2% were "black" (hmm, but they only make up 12.8% of the pop)
So let me get this straight again, hate crimes are being committed 60% of the time by a group that makes up 70% of the population, but 20% of the time by a group that makes up less than 13% of the population.
I guess we were carefully taught.
Just not statistics it seems.
Nice article though, I'm voting it up.
{"commentId":11223511,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Jake-413451"}
- 8 votes
{"commentId":11224103,"authorDomain":"egoode"}
Speaking of tans....you should talk to my wife about sunburns....she's had a whopping total of ONE.....EVER....
Including when we went to south Florida, and I needed to slather on a layer of sunscreen so thick I looked like a clown....her...not a drop...me...still sunburned...
{"commentId":11224103,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"egoode"}
- 7 votes
{"commentId":11224416,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
Speaking of hatred , how many hate their in-laws ?
No EG --- this question was not directed at you .
{"commentId":11224416,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 12 votes
{"commentId":11224572,"authorDomain":"egoode"}
LOL....someone's been reading my writing...
{"commentId":11224572,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"egoode"}
- 10 votes
{"commentId":11224650,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
LOL....someone's been reading my writing...
Yes --- only because they are well worth the read .
I seem to recall that you said :
" Do dyslexic agnostics discuss the existence of doG ? "
{"commentId":11224650,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 10 votes
{"commentId":11224744,"authorDomain":"Carol-1960"}
I live in the south (Tennessee), and I certainly agree that racism does exist down here. I will say that I have never heard anyone make a loud insulting remark when I have seen a mixed race couple while out in public. I am sure that things have been uttered or whispered which I have not heard, but I have been surprised that I have never heard anything shouted openly. Of course, this may be because I don't get out that much, and I don't hang around bigoted people, but it's just an observation.
{"commentId":11224744,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Carol-1960"}
- 7 votes
{"commentId":11224834,"authorDomain":"sjdyermd"}
Perrie- excellent seed- like you ( raised in Bay Area) I thought hate in America was historical. I took a job in the deep south- and felt like I owed Jesse Jackson a personal apology.
That said, you can just look on the vine. I wonder how long it will be til we have our first hate crime based on difference of political opinion!
{"commentId":11224834,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"sjdyermd"}
- 9 votes
{"commentId":11224912,"authorDomain":"egoode"}
Why yes, nonSit...I do recall slaying that...
Thanks for the support!
{"commentId":11224912,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"egoode"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":11224943,"authorDomain":"demosthene"}
Jake, nice try, but your statistics are no better than Perrie's. What matters is that 13% of the population (Blacks) suffer from 37% of hate crimes. And there is a quick and easy explanation for why 13% of the population (Blacks) commits 20% of the crime: Black folks are far more likely to be poor, and poor people are far more likely to be arrested and, after arrested, convicted. 'Nuff said.
The odds are simply not salient here: if you are a victim of a hate crime, you're not going to breath a sigh of relief and say, "Wow, I could have died in a fall." Even though you are far more likely to die from falling (especially if you are elderly), as a crime victim you are only thinking about what happened to you, not what could have happened. Using statistics like that is an academic exercise only.
{"commentId":11224943,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"demosthene"}
- 10 votes
{"commentId":11225651,"authorDomain":"wallen-1"}
That said, you can just look on the vine. I wonder how long it will be til we have our first hate crime based on difference of political opinion!
"We" as in Newsvine, or "we" as in the country? Because nationally, it isn't that rare. It's always downplayed, and as a society we seem to be wired to jump on the "Oh, he was just a nut" bandwagon when it happens and ignore all the political underpinnings, but it's there all the same...
{"commentId":11225651,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"wallen-1"}
- 9 votes
{"commentId":11225880,"authorDomain":"Jake-413451"}
Demo-
Your mixing your numbers. Yes the poorer are more likely to commit, and be convicted of, certain crimes, especially property crimes. This though has to do with hate crimes. Does being poor make them more likely to hate?
The FBI stats do not run off of convictions but from incident reports, which includes those cases where no one is convicted, but the race of the assaliant is known. So while someone who is more well to do may be convicted less frequently, the race of the perpetraotr would still be reported accuratley. You can read that for yourself under the methodology.
Here you can learn more about the NIBRS:
http://www.icprsr.umich.edu/NACJD/NIBRS
So I am not mixing my numbers by excluding those who aren't convicted tus over-representing a group which is more likely to include the economically disadvataged as the system isn't disrupted with the variable your discussing.
{"commentId":11225880,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Jake-413451"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11226135,"authorDomain":"Jake-413451"}
Perrie,
It was because I went with the benefit of the doubt that I went through and removed the snark. I figured there was a very good chance you weren't intentionally trying to give an inaccurate representation.
Thanks for the heads up on the Census info, of course the FBI doesn't give us a breakdown in their numbers of 'White not Hispanic which is why I stuck with the higher number. Didn't fit right by me to use the smaller number when I couldn't support that is how it was intended in the FBI numbers.
Like I said though, I have a problem with an assertion that things haven't changed since WWII when the data presented to support that contention is from 60 years after WWII. I am confident you could find a study from the 60's or 70's demonstrating the prevalence of racial bigotry involving assaults or other crimes by which you could demonstrate if the assertion is justifiable.
My gut says there has been a significant change in attitude, and thus a corresponding change in actions, but like I said I really do want to keep this constructive. Are you aware of any numbers that would support your assertion? Because making the claim that things haven't changed in 60+ years using two sets of data collected 4 years apart just isn't kosher to me.
I do agree with you though that there is a way to go in eliminating bigotry from society. I also believe the best way to do so is with honest open discussion. It is unfortunate there are still those people, and those areas, where people feel the need to hide their identity before speaking, (yes I know odd to say while posting anonymously, I remain anonymous though for very different reasons).
{"commentId":11226135,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Jake-413451"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":11227670,"authorDomain":"Jake-413451"}
Actually I think your assuming motivation on my part which just isn't there. I am confident there are studies done, perhaps by sociologists, which could determine whether or not there has been a significant shift in peoples attitudes and behavior.
While someone could always try and say "oh it's just anecdotal" they are being just a tiny bit disengenouious. While the pieces of the whole may be anecdotal that does not mean the whole is anecdotal. If your lumping me in with people like that, or assuming similar motives let me put that to rest, it just isn't the way I operate.
Now yes, if someone just posted a bunch of stories from the 60's, yeah I'd call that anecdotal, if you posted a study done that happened to include those same stories no I wouldn't. Although I might question the methodology of the study if it was flawed.
{"commentId":11227670,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Jake-413451"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11227873,"authorDomain":"Jake-413451"}
My apologies then if it came across badly.
Also, referring to your post 1.24, it is sad commentary what some people will say (and of course therefore think).
{"commentId":11227873,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Jake-413451"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11237395,"authorDomain":"Carol-1960"}
When I went on a business with my husband trip to Charleston, SC, I heard the tour guide refer to how the colored folk here like the freedoms that they received even before the Civil War.
Perrie, that kind of talk would not be tolerated in the Memphis, TN area where I live.
{"commentId":11237395,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Carol-1960"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":11237903,"authorDomain":"Steve485394"}
Perrie: 1st, I would like to comend you on your article, as I too believe in the relevancy of such in a society we all believe has moved forward.
2nd, kudos to you for the small answers you give on your threads, you are one of the few who seemingly follow what is stated making comments as you go along!
I guess what we need to be aware of what you are saying would be a spread sheet showing the incidents as a percent of the population on a year by year breakdown. Using pertinent facts and being able to judge on a year by year as to whether the percentage is growing or decreasing would be of value!
And, your statement that here on the Vine, individuals can be or express to be anything they want or aspire to, is so correct. We have individuals who are passionate in their feelings and beliefs, some willing to communicate and learn, some who only wish to expound with their diatribes about subjects in which they have little or no knowledge or interest in learning about.
Thank you Perrie for you articles from time to time!
{"commentId":11237903,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Steve485394"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":11238949,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11239529,"authorDomain":"Aleuicius"}
How come you left out the Anti-White bias hate crime statistic?
What comparisons for these bias'? Black vs White vs Hispanic vs Native American vs "Other"? Which were multiple bias? Did race make a difference - or did the other bias make a difference to race?
What, exactly, should electing a Black President change, regarding these statistics?
So far, the greatest proponents of racism today seem to be those most observant for -and vocal about - racism. Yet they profess to be against it.
Go figure.
{"commentId":11239529,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Aleuicius"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":11243225,"authorDomain":"Aleuicius"}
Odd - as I read them, the "white stat" was one of the top numbers; else I would not have asked. Even then, many such stats are skewed, simply because whites aren't considered a "protected group".
Your article is definitely about hate and reflects well that we have learned and accomplished little by doing and believing as we have. Our approach is unlikely to change in the near future (we'll need to tack almost opposite our current efforts), so I expect little enough change. Witness the current Administration as an example: pushing ever farther and faster down the road we are already on -
- and truly; in my eyes; as racist a bunch as ever there has been, in our Capitol.
But then again; we are repeatedly reminded that this (Administration) is what America voted for - what we wanted.
{"commentId":11243225,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Aleuicius"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":11248336,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
It is so sad that we have learned nothing from our past.
There is still a tremendous amount of racism in the U.S.
However-- to be accurate, it is also important to realize that it has decreased.
Both statements are true...
For starters-- we did elect a black president. That would not have been possible several years ago.
And discrimination against African-Americans was much more widespread. People forget what it was like (or, given the current state of education re: U.S. history in many of our schools-- perhaps people never knew in the first place?). Here's an excellent video that really shows what it was like-- and from an historical perspective, this was not so long ago:
The Way it Was: Mavis Staples "Eye on the Prize"
I wonder-- what do people think about what is shown in this video?
{"commentId":11248336,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 7 votes
{"commentId":11248681,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
Welcome back Krish .
discrimination against African-Americans was much more widespread.
Not just widespread but actually sanctioned by the state .
I'm old enough to have lived through that era so the vid holds
no surprises for me .
{"commentId":11248681,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 8 votes
{"commentId":11250349,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
Not too much has changed since those days. I still hear racial slurs.
See a lot of lynchings now a days, do ya? :-(
{"commentId":11250349,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":11250921,"authorDomain":"Aleuicius"}
Perrie; Re: my post 1.37 being off-topic:
We cannot separate the hate from the politics if we are going to keep attempting to use government to abate it. Preferential laws are as biased as any have been. That the intent was to "protect" anyone matters not at all. The act of creating such protection is itself biased.
To achieve equality requires the intent, application, and results of these laws be equally applied. That does not require bias-specific laws - it requires honor and integrity in the application of existing Law.
We proclaim an anti-bias position, yet apply bias to support it; by creating rule and law for preferential treatment or punishment based on those bias. My reference to the current Administration is that it's major "participants" have shown by their past records and writings that they favor continued (mis)use of Law for preferential treatment or punishments, based on bias - thus, the continued promotion of bias in any form.
And THAT creates a whole new generation of bias. After all, I don't get the preferential treatment - or I get "extra" punishment - because of that bias.
This "new generation of bias" is something I see happening - daily
{"commentId":11250921,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Aleuicius"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":11250985,"authorDomain":"jwc2blue"}
See a lot of lynchings now a days, do ya?
No. At least the literal ones have faded. Too much evidence from the criminal I guess.
{"commentId":11250985,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"jwc2blue"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11253397,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
Perrie ,
Verbally is my fav way to be lynched .
{"commentId":11253397,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":11253504,"authorDomain":"Bringe"}
I would argue it is not America, It is humans as a whole.
The human way is to hate that which is different from yourself. There are MANY more places and countries in the world, where MORE hate is projected onto people. Wouldn't you agree?
But that aside, I agree the hatefulness and division amongst our brothers and sisters in our own country, is truly sad :(
{"commentId":11253504,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Bringe"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":11253917,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
Krishna, you don't see lynchings in a physical sense, but I have seen plenty in a verbal sense...
Well, verbal is bad. But its a slight improvement over physical.
IMO there's two parts to thsi-- things are still bad. And they are better than they used to be. Both staements are true.
There's still alot of racism-- pretty terrible. And-- the trend is positive.
{"commentId":11253917,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 7 votes
{"commentId":11253922,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
I would argue it is not America, It is humans as a whole.
Exactly.
But, in some circles, its considered "cool" to bash America.
{"commentId":11253922,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 8 votes
{"commentId":11253964,"authorDomain":"Bringe"}
True!
I'd also argue that it's more than just "some" circles too!
{"commentId":11253964,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Bringe"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11254367,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
Perrie ,
How about being beaten because your gay?
That is no longer verbal .
And I have been beaten , for reasons that were not clear
at the time . I would have definitely preferred the verbal beating .
But it was not my choice .
Also what makes you think gays always have the moral high ground ?
They are not necessarily more "moral" , just more persecuted .
When they are in a position of power they can be just as much of an
@$$%^&* as anyone else .
{"commentId":11254367,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":11255134,"authorDomain":"Mariyam"}
Perrie
Thank you blue,
Krishna, you don't see lynchings in a physical sense, but I have seen plenty in a verbal sense...
More importantly, economic lynchings. Or how about verbal lynchings leading to economic lynchings. I can't find a source at the moment, but I remember reading somewhere that when African Americans first won the right to vote, that there were many places where the vehicles bringing food into their communities were blockaded and the people literally starved out.
Jim Crow may not be in effect on paper, but in fact, the powers that be have had a long time to perfect their methods of destruction. They know exactly what they are doing.
{"commentId":11255134,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Mariyam"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11261890,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11264942,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
You are kind of missing the point. Yes we are not lynching, but not because we have as individuals, but because of laws that came about by the actions of brave African Americans.
I don't think you are getting my point . I did not say there is no hate or hate crimes .
I just think it is , on average , less than it used to be . Physical lynchings used to be
common in some regions but not anymore . This is not to say we don't need
further improvements .
As to that FBI report # 5 , perhaps I fault it for not being clear .
{"commentId":11264942,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11268654,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11270144,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
The only thing that is not clear in FBI report 5 is the definition of who is white and in any case, why should that matter?
You do not share my interest in statistics . It is important in order to compare
rates of occurrence and to observe patterns of extremes .
We both had this discussion with JohnRussell back in #14 plus .
Hate is just that way, like a disease, it may seem to be better, maybe even gone, but it just takes a little stress and the disease comes back, sometimes worse than ever.
Sometimes that stress is economic in nature .
{"commentId":11270144,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":11270566,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
There are MANY more places and countries in the world, where MORE hate is projected onto people. Wouldn't you agree?
Yes-- definitely.
There is a lot of prejudice-- hatred, bigotry-- in the U.S. But its much, much worse elsewhere.
Have people forgotten the horrors of racism in the genocide in Rwanda?
The Rwandan Genocide was the 1994 mass killing of hundreds of thousands of Rwanda's Tutsis and Hutu political moderates by the Hutu dominated government under the Hutu Power ideology. Over the course of approximately 100 days, from the assassination of Juvénal Habyarimana on 6 April through mid-July, at least 500,000 people were killed.[1] Estimates of the death toll have ranged between 500,000 and 1,000,000,[2] or as much as 20% of the total population of the country.
Most of the victims were killed in their villages or in towns, often by their neighbors and fellow villagers. Militia members typically murdered their victims by hacking them with machetes, although some army units used rifles. Victims were often found hiding in churches and school buildings, where Hutu gangs massacred them. Ordinary citizens were called on by local officials and government-sponsored radio to kill their neighbors, and those who refused to kill were often murdered themselves. "Either you took part in the massacres or you were massacred yourself."[22] One such massacre occurred at Nyarubuye. On April 12, more than 1,500 Tutsis sought refuge in a Catholic church in Nyange, then in Kivumu commune. Local Interahamwe, acting in concert with the other local authorities, then used bulldozers to knock down the church building.[23] People who tried to escape were hacked with machetes or shot. Local priest Athanase Seromba was later found guilty and sentenced to life in prison by the ICTR for his role in the demolition of his church and convicted of the crime of genocide and crimes against humanity.[23][24][25] In another case, thousands sought refuge in Ecole Technique Officielle school in Kigali where Belgian UNAMIR soldiers were stationed. However, on April 11, Belgian soldiers withdrew from the school and members of the Rwandan armed forces and militia killed all the Tutsis who were hiding there.[26]
There is no consensus on the number of dead between April 6 and mid-July. Unlike the genocides carried out by the Nazi Germany and by the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, authorities made no attempts to record deaths. The RPF government has stated that 1,071,000 were killed, 10% of whom were Hutu. Philip Gourevitch agrees with an estimate of one million, while the United Nations lists the toll as 800,000
The massive scale of this racist hatred boggles the imagination... (READ IT ALL).
{"commentId":11270566,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11270662,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
I would argue it is not America, It is humans as a whole.
The human way is to hate that which is different from yourself. There are MANY more places and countries in the world, where MORE hate is projected onto people. Wouldn't you agree?
In addition to the genocide in Rwanda (comment #1.60, above), another example that comes to mind is the extreme bigotry and intolerance towards non-Muslims in much of the Arab world.
When I was in Egypt I happened to meet two Egyptian Copts (a very old Christian denomination). They told me horrifying stories of the persecution Christians face in Egypt-- things that you hardly ever see in the pc western media. And- whatever we discussed, they kept trying to change the subject-- back to whther or not I oculd somehow help them to escape the persecution their gorup faces in Egypt, and immigrate to America.
{"commentId":11270662,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11270928,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
Perrie
Thank you blue,
Krishna, you don't see lynchings in a physical sense, but I have seen plenty in a verbal sense...
More importantly, economic lynchings. Or how about verbal lynchings leading to economic lynchings. I can't find a source at the moment, but I remember reading somewhere that when African Americans first won the right to vote, that there were many places where the vehicles bringing food into their communities were blockaded and the people literally starved out.
Jim Crow may not be in effect on paper, but in fact, the powers that be have had a long time to perfect their methods of destruction. They know exactly what they are doing.
I guess I wasn't clear. I am not denying that racism exists-- and, in fact, its pretty bad. However, the point I was trying to make is that things are improving-- and yes, its gradual. But the trend-- however slowly-- is improving.
{"commentId":11270928,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11279600,"authorDomain":"Carol-1960"}
That is good to know, and I was not implying a sweeping generalization about southerners. That is just anecdotal, and not a legitimate statistic.
Perrie, I didn't take it as a sweeping generalization. I am sure that there are many people who share the sentiments of the tour guides, but do not openly make remarks like that. I am shocked that those statements were made as recently as 1998.
{"commentId":11279600,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Carol-1960"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":11279695,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11279805,"authorDomain":"Carol-1960"}
I'm just curious. Did anyone complain to the company about those tour guides?
{"commentId":11279805,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Carol-1960"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":11282048,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11283074,"authorDomain":"Carol-1960"}
I'm just glad the native of Charleston appologized. At least you know we're not all like that. :)
{"commentId":11283074,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Carol-1960"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":11341893,"authorDomain":"christopher-j-andersen"}
@1.2
I never knew how much racism there was until I started to work in an inner city school.
I'm experiencing racism in public schools right now. The military is moving me to a school district where ALL the high schools are receiving failing grades every year. I'm considering home-schooling my HS student because of the rediculously low education standards of all the are high schools. I went to the school we are districted for so I could see things with my own eyes and talk to the administrators, as I know pure numbers don't always tell the whole story. Well I got more of a story than I was expecting.
The school was completely falling apart. Paint was barely covering many of the walls. Holes in the walls and doors were everywhere. The school was filthy. I talked with the school counselor to address some of my concerns. She assured me that a very good education could be had at the school and that the school's failing grades were indeed misleading.
You see, she said, we have a lot of black students who couldn't care less about learning anything. Since they don't care to come to school, they do badly on tests. Because of this, our school gets a failing grade. Your daughter is white, so she'll probably do pretty well. See our numbers? Most white students do well... it's just the black students who won't learn. Because your daughter has good grades, we'll even put her in a separate program in the school. It's like a school within a school. She stays in her own section of the school and will only be classmates with other students who care about their education and are doing well. She won't be mixed in with all the black students who regularly skip school and distract the class when they do show up.
Well she is NOT going to that school. Home-schooling is moving up a bit higher on the list of options. If I wasn't about to leave for a year to Afghanistan I think I'd pursue the subject much more and see what could be done about removing the administrators... but it seems to be a problem throughout the entire area as opposed to just one or two schools. Truly sick.
I grew up in the Midwest and did not see much racism. Every time I come to the South, I am amazed at how bad things are down here. Unbelievable.
{"commentId":11341893,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"christopher-j-andersen"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11350925,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11351777,"authorDomain":"christopher-j-andersen"}
I think that people doubt that these conditions exist in America today.
I was one of those people. The only real racism I saw growing up was what I perceived to be hate speech from NCAA, Jessie Jackson, etc. I thought they were just trying to keep the issue going so they could win more preferential treatment for minorities in the work place. It was not til I moved to the South for the first time that I realized such strong racism did in fact still exist. I'm still not sure I agree with affirmative action, but I can definitely see the need for steps like it whenever I come to the lower states.
{"commentId":11351777,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"christopher-j-andersen"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11359329,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11362578,"authorDomain":"ddickinson-1"}
hey Perrie-
Quick personal note...I traveled across the country in the early 90's with my then-girlfriend, who happened to be black. We drove from Calfornia to Tennessee to see her family, then to new England to visit mine.
White guy, black girl, driving 4000 miles and the only time we were harassed was in New England. The people who treated us the nicest were in Texas and Louisiana.
Just my personal experience. I'm not going to say it's indicative of anything.
{"commentId":11362578,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"ddickinson-1"}
- 7 votes
{"commentId":11366985,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11438032,"authorDomain":"USA4Him"}
I do not hate, I may dislike and disagree with certain lifestyles,politics and so on, but never with race,religion and so on..
I live in a state where there still is prejudice against minorities. I thankfully have never let it get me down because I treat everyone with respect and I always have a smile on my face no matter what I may be going through.
{"commentId":11438032,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"USA4Him"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11214754,"authorDomain":"stevef"}
Perrie,
This is a very good article, one of your best! It it so sad... but it is all so true.
Making matters worse, is the fact that some people have discovered they gain more power than they would otherwise have by inciting hatred. They don't seem to care that their actions weaken America and make us less safe than we would be if we were more united... more accepting of differences... they just want as much power as they can get.
I have probably used this quote from my own article at least 20 times, so I hope you will forgive me for using it again, but I feel it is pertinent...
We Americans are a very diverse people, and I believe our diversity is what makes us a strong nation. That is, even though I am a proud Liberal, I believe the conservative counter to my beliefs is a good thing for America. But it is ONLY good if we all recognize that none of us will get everything we want, if we look for ways to accommodate the needs and even the wants of the people who are most different from us, if we are not only willing but proactively seeking compromise; THEN diversity is good. On the other hand, if we are proactively seeking to divide, that is bad for America! It makes us weaker, less productive, and generally a less healthy nation.
{"commentId":11214754,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"stevef"}
- 19 votes
#2 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:21 AM EST{"commentId":11240960,"authorDomain":"Aleuicius"}
They don't seem to care that their actions weaken America and make us less safe than we would be if we were more united
To unite, we must quit the race games we play;
Making matters worse, is the fact that some people have discovered they gain more power than they would otherwise have by inciting government
. . .and using that to promote myriad confusing laws to prevent a pet peeve, or perceived wrong.
We have quite sufficient law on the books to address the issues between people - even if we drop nearly everything of the past 180 years. Our problem used to be equal application - today, it's just a problem of equal application, compounded by a desire to prevent any occurrence before it happens.
Equal application - rather than racist/biased - and forget the pre-emptive trash while actively and promptly addressing what HAS occurred - without racism or bias - will provide much of your missing unity.
The quote is good - there is one little point that contributes to the disunity and discord:
if we look for ways to accommodate the needs and even the wants of the people who are most different from us, if we are not only willing but proactively seeking compromise;
We (the People) need to accomodate the "rights and liberties of others", not their "needs and wants" - nor do we focus on any particular category. "Needs and Wants" will mostly work themselves out.
We view "All Men are Created Equal" - or not.
Today, we do that far less than we ever did.
{"commentId":11240960,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Aleuicius"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":11244133,"authorDomain":"stevef"}
Hi Aleuicius,
Please alow me to clarify what I mean when I say we need to "look for ways to accommodate the needs and even the wants of the people who are most different from us..."
First, I happen to believe it is very important to ensure that peoples NEEDS are taken care of. That DOES NOT mean I am advocating a free ride for everyone. There are some people who do not have the means to properly provide for their own needs, elderly, disabled, disadvantaged children, etc. I feel it is not only our moral obligation to look after these people, but a benefit to the nation as a whole in part because it "promote[s] the general Welfare" (remember that one from the Constitution). As for people who do have the means to provide for their own needs, all I feel that is necessary there is to ensure that everyone does have a fair chance to provide for their needs, and to rectify those situations where people are unfairly encumbered.
As for WANTS... I am not saying we should provide wants for anyone (with the exception of things like the Make a Wish Foundation). I took my quote from an article in which I was advocating for COMPROMISE (because it is out of the context of the entire article, that may have caused you to misinterpret what I was saying). I was really trying to say, not that we should provide wants, but that when we are trying to find compromise with people who we disagree with, we should stretch ourselves in our effort to put ourselves in the shoes of our opponent. We should do that not only to have the best possibly understanding of the opposing side, but also in the hope that it will inspire the opposing side to give us the same consideration, thereby providing the best chance to arrive at a good and fair compromise.
We(the People) need to accomodate the "rights and liberties of others.
If we say, "We have ensured your 'rights and liberties' to provide for your own needs and wants, and that is ALL we will do, even if your situation is so severely disadvantaged that you have little or no chance to provide those needs and wants for yourself, we're sorry but that is just too bad." Then I feel that is not only morally bankrupt, but not even in the spirit of the constitution.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
As you suggest, it does say, "and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity", but it also says, "establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, ... promote the general Welfare", all of which suggest that the idea is to ensure that everyone has a fair chance to have a decent life by provide their own needs and wants.
{"commentId":11244133,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"stevef"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11251170,"authorDomain":"Aleuicius"}
An individual make give or provide as much as they wish; but, regardless of reason, have no right to take from others to do so. The General Welfare "clause" is merely an excuse to do so and make it look "right" by the Constitution.
The more taken in this fashion results in less given to provide for others - and you get to pay much more "overhead"
But this is definitely off-topic and ends here.
Thank you
{"commentId":11251170,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Aleuicius"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":11214948,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
Hi Mal,
Making matters worse, is the fact that some people have discovered they gain more power than they would otherwise have by inciting hatred. They don't seem to care that their actions weaken America and make us less safe than we would be if we were more united... more accepting of differences... they just want as much power as they can get.
I think that this is especially true of the media. These TV personalities, (I can't call them reporters, because all they do is give opinion and very little news) have tried at the expense of this country to drive a wedge between people.
Your quote is perfect. It doesn't matter how much you have used it. It still rings true!
{"commentId":11214948,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"perrie"}
- 12 votes
#3 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:30 AM EST{"commentId":11215020,"authorDomain":"immaginedigitalimag"}
So what have we learned. Apparently not much.
A. Mac
{"commentId":11215020,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"immaginedigitalimag"}
- 12 votes
#4 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:33 AM EST{"commentId":11215224,"authorDomain":"sarahlove"}
One of my favorite MJ songs. Ever. :) thanks!
{"commentId":11215224,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"sarahlove"}
- 11 votes
{"commentId":11227358,"authorDomain":"EllieP"}
Mine, too.
Perrie, just a brief comment here tonight. 100% of crimes were based upon criminal activity. How about we stop trying to make ourselves the judge of peoples' hearts and motives and just plain old enforce the law?
The heart of (hu)man(s) has not only not changed in decades or centuries. It hasn't changed in millenia. Nothing you or I say or pass into hate crime law will change that. Hearts are only changed on the inside. Citizens, on the other hand, should be protected/avenged by the laws of the land which we really do NOT have the collective heart to follow through on. IMHO, of course. As for me, I really don't care why you kill a [fill in the minority group here]. I only care that you do. And I care about that 100% of the time.
{"commentId":11227358,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"EllieP"}
- 14 votes
{"commentId":11228406,"authorDomain":"immaginedigitalimag"}
Racism (hatred), it could be argued, is a form of triangulation;
... a form of "splitting" in which one person plays a third person against the person that they are upset about. This is playing the two people against each other, but usually the person doing the splitting, will also engage in character assassination, only with both parties.
In my opinion, racists-haters have great dissatisfaction in their lives; they need scapegoats - they need to blame ... all but themselves. So they pick a target - race is easy because it has a color generally and can be isolated simply by external appearance ... or the kinds of buildings in which they worship, or the symbols and icons witch which they are associated.
Once the scapegoat is institutionalized as such, any anomaly - a BLACK PRESIDENT for example - must be a fluke, a quirk, a mistake (albeit one made by millions of "non-scapegoaters"/non-haters).
The less educated the hater, the more irrational and hence, intense, the hatred.
Have we all not witnessed two different ethnic group/nationality/religion-member individuals who, when not triangulating against one another, triangulate against some other targeted group? You know, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend..."
For now.
A. Mac
{"commentId":11228406,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"immaginedigitalimag"}
- 10 votes
{"commentId":11238020,"authorDomain":"kazutam"}
As for me, I really don't care why you kill a [fill in the minority group here]. I only care that you do.
The highlighted portion of the above quote is what really gets me about this whole "hate crimes" debate.
That attitude shows the BIGGEST problem right there. The thought that ONLY minorities(race, religion, sexual preference) can be the "victim" of a hate crime.
The stats given at the beginning of this article are the REPORTED "hate crimes".
What about all of the "hate crimes" that happen that ARE NOT classified and reported as a "hate crime"?
Case in point the young man in Buffalo who was attacked by a gang and beaten over the head with a chunk of concrete?
Everyone thinks it was because he was white and dating a black woman. They had been harassed and threatened by black males in the past. Yet that was NOT considered a "hate crime", so it will NOT make it into those types of stats quoted.
There are MANY MANY other cases around the country where this happens. The one I remember well happened in MT. Clemens MI. There are group of young black males went on a rampage and attacked ONLY whites. When asked about the charges they would file the sheriff didn't consider whites to be one of the "protected groups" covered by "hate crimes" laws.
"redneck", "cracker", "hillbilly" "white boy" and MANY other racist slurs used against whites are explained away and NOT considered to be a "racial slur" when looked at during an attack, which is what is used MOST OFTEN in classifying a crime as a "hate crime".
IF they wish to track these types of crimes, why are EQUAL protections not given to ALL groups under these statutes?
I have read folks here on the vine actually state that ONLY whites commit hate crimes and ONLY whites are racist. Well if you wish to look at life thru that viewpoint then it is absolutely amazing to me that the numbers are not higher.
To ME rape is a "hate crime" and should ALWAYS be classified that way, so look at the inter-racial rape rates and tell me WHY those numbers are the way that they are.
{"commentId":11238020,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"kazutam"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":11241637,"authorDomain":"Aleuicius"}
But Perrie;
But everyone is so fixated on race hate crime and have dismissed the other kinds and I just don't get this fixation
What "other" kinds? A RACE hate crime is just that - no matter the color of the instigator or victim (it only matters that race is different - but that it matters at all is racist). Either the laws are just as relevant to black against white as white against black - or they are themselves racist in nature. There should be no such thing as "protected groups"; such thinking is also racist.
In our anti-racist fervor, we are blind to the racism it contains. Says a lot about us, really.
{"commentId":11241637,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Aleuicius"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":11242105,"authorDomain":"Steve485394"}
Perrie & kazutam: I know that at times we have seen very passionate topics about religion based articles, and at times we see some who would rather voice their opinion against a possibility of God and that is their choice. It seems to me, that without all of the quotes from the Bible, if we all just followed the Ten Commandments, the world and all would be a lot better off.
kazutam is right about those who attack,hurt, or identify any specific group regardless of race, creed or color in their intent to cause harm. Anyone with an "attitude" about others(meaning other than themselves or like themselves) who look to provoke, to incite, to harm, without any other reason than the lack of comparative relationship is showing their ignorance and most likely expressing hate or anger towards those they attack. Whatever the reason..... and society does need to understand, if only to break the bonds which create the anger, we, and that would be all of us, need to do all we can to minimize, to educate, and yes at times, offer a helping hand to those in need, in desperate hope of one day eradicating hate from this world..
It is suggested that we both fear and hate what we do not know, and perhaps it is our business to educate, to communicate better, to stand in the shadow, to walk in another's shoes, and in understanding, we look to break the bonds of past habits..... Yes, I know, pie in the sky, but if one does not try, nothing will ever succeed.
Three white kids beating up on a white kid, or three black kids beating up on a white kid, or Hispanic, or Asian, or whatever.... only when we as a society will not tolerate such action with the action be stopped. Now take away the color, make them either Democrats or Republicans, and instead use words, actions, or lack of actions but using the same anger, hatred or bias brought into adulthood, now we have a problem exhibited by today's partisan actions in our government.
{"commentId":11242105,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Steve485394"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11243133,"authorDomain":"supercallie"}
Now take away the color, make them either Democrats or Republicans, and instead use words, actions, or lack of actions but using the same anger, hatred or bias brought into adulthood, now we have a problem exhibited by today's partisan actions in our government.
I heard a story once about a young Native American boy who asked his father why some people are hateful, cruel and unkind, while others are loving, compassionate and caring. His father told him there are 2 wolves living in each human: one wolf is savage, arrogant, closed-minded and vicious; the other is empathetic, gentle, tolerant and open-minded and the wolves constantly fight for supremacy and survival. The boy asks, "which wolf will survive?" His father replies "whichever one you feed."
I think Perrie's article demonstrates that, based on statistical data, it's well past time for humans to rethink which wolf we're feeding.
{"commentId":11243133,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"supercallie"}
- 13 votes
{"commentId":11243534,"authorDomain":"Aleuicius"}
callie-girl; I am sorry I have but one vote to give.
{"commentId":11243534,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Aleuicius"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11249306,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11250254,"authorDomain":"ddickinson-1"}
Thank-you, callie-girl
{"commentId":11250254,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"ddickinson-1"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11250540,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
I heard a story once about a young Native American boy who asked his father why some people are hateful, cruel and unkind, while others are loving, compassionate and caring. His father told him there are 2 wolves living in each human: one wolf is savage, arrogant, closed-minded and vicious; the other is empathetic, gentle, tolerant and open-minded and the wolves constantly fight for supremacy and survival. The boy asks, "which wolf will survive?" His father replies "whichever one you feed."
I think you have made an excellent poinnt-- it all comes down to choice. Indivdiauls can choose.
I think Perrie's article demonstrates that, based on statistical data, it's well past time for humans to rethink which wolf we're feeding.
I agree-- its well past time!. (And has been for several centuries!!!)
{"commentId":11250540,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 8 votes
{"commentId":11252299,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11255213,"authorDomain":"Mariyam"}
Aleuicius
"But Perrie;
But everyone is so fixated on race hate crime and have dismissed the other kinds and I just don't get this fixation"
What "other" kinds? A RACE hate crime is just that - no matter the color of the instigator or victim (it only matters that race is different - but that it matters at all is racist)
I'm black and I had a neighbor (a black guy) who had a serious problem with me because my boyfriend at the time is white. The guy is a stalker who just happens to be a cop but by your criteria this wouldn't constitute a hate crime. Why?
{"commentId":11255213,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Mariyam"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11259291,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11265135,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
Thanks for sharing your story Mariyam .
This would be a classic case of black on black
hate crime . The FBI would classify it that way
and I would have to agree .
{"commentId":11265135,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11215235,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
A Mac,
I forgot about that song! What an excellent one for the topic. But so few of us take a look in that mirror. How sad.
{"commentId":11215235,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"perrie"}
- 11 votes
#5 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:43 AM EST{"commentId":11215267,"authorDomain":"tcooper2004"}
Perrie- Great article!
The three of us could have followed my Mom or my Dad in their beliefs...Dad made Archie Bunker look and sound like a liberal...Mom kept all opinions to herself, she never vocalized-so, we had no idea of her actual thoughts. As we grew up, she started to loosen up a bit and would talk to us, and yup, she leans liberal.
Luckily, the three of us followed in Mom's thought-steps!
{"commentId":11215267,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"tcooper2004"}
- 18 votes
#6 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:44 AM EST{"commentId":11226277,"authorDomain":"JustDucki"}
Hi Perrie,
You stated up above,
My paternal grandfather was full of hate for everyone.
Wonder if he was related to maternal grandfather? He was a horrible racist but used the "I just call a spade a spade" line to justify it. His hatred was so deep rooted that when we found out that there was *gasp* black blood flowing through our veins, my grandmother would not allow anyone to tell him for fear it would kill him.
I got called out on one of my articles recently on another site. I'd brought the Mormon belief in blood atonement up when I really should not have. My thinking at the time was that it might stir the pot some and yes, maybe create a bit of controversy. What was pointed out to me -rightfully- was that I was using division to create attention. Did it work? Yes, the article got lots of attention. Did I accomplish anything? Only to create more division where there needs to be union. It stung to be called out and to read the words that "the author loses all credibility by showing her bigotry" it stopped me cold and made me re-examine my methods. Lesson learned, no playing on differences just to get attention, it is hurtful and unnecessary.
What a great, thought-provoking article!
{{{Perrie}}}
PS - Sorry I didn't get here earlier, my kids brought home some kind of crud and passed it on to me. Back to bed I go....
{"commentId":11226277,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"JustDucki"}
- 8 votes
{"commentId":11227638,"authorDomain":"jewel-one"}
A certain close male relative of mine who lived in California gave money to Planned Parenthood, seemingly out of lockstep with most of his political leanings.
His rationale for giving donations? "To keep the mexicans from taking over the state of California."
{"commentId":11227638,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"jewel-one"}
- 11 votes
{"commentId":11229632,"authorDomain":"sarahlove"}
Ducki,
I have a similar family story. Someone in my family LOVES doing family history (Mormon term for genealogy-had to throw the Mormon in there cause of yours haha) until they ran across "colored blood" and then they stopped tracing that side because of it.
{"commentId":11229632,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"sarahlove"}
- 9 votes
{"commentId":11236415,"authorDomain":"JustDucki"}
His rationale for giving donations? "To keep the mexicans from taking over the state of California."
Beautiful logic there, huh? I can easily see that being said/done by older members of my family. Yuck.
Perrie -
A "savage" for real? They thought that?! Yikes! But again, it shows how thought patterns and hatred or racism or even simple misconceptions can be so easily passed down through families, doesn't it?
My "calling out" happened on the 1st day I opened our new website and by one of the 1st members to join. I got schooled on my own article - on my own website! Made quite an impact on me. But, she was right - I was using religious differences to create a stir and the world does not need any more division. I wasn't even stating my beliefs, I was intentionally and deliberately using the Mormon Church because I know it can be a controversial issue and I wanted hits and readers. I looked in the mirror and saw the shadows of folks like Glen Beck and O'Reilly - EEEEK!
No big deal for me to talk about it; quite the opposite. Maybe by me talking about it, someone else with think twice before they throw more negativity, intolerance and division into the Universe. I hope so, at any rate.
SarahD - Now you make me wonder if all of newsvine isn't crawling with relatives I haven't met yet?! My family created a family tree and simply left out all the "impure" members - including a really nice Wiccan Aunt. Cain't have them witches running around nekked boiling the youngsters in hot oil, now can we?!
{"commentId":11236415,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"JustDucki"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11215602,"authorDomain":"templeboy"}
Perrie,
Excellent reporting, as usual.
Coupla thoughts:
Our role models are letting us down in this area. The children are learning trashtalk and intimidation against those that wear different "uniforms" than they do. The next step seems to come naturally.
Our politicians, although most definitely not role models, are conditioning us to act derisively to those we disagree with. When sensitive issues come up in the hallowed halls, the divisions grow very sharp, very quickly.
Everywhere we look, we are conditioned to handle everything in an adversarial manner. "If you're not with us, you're against us". Bigotry and prejudice are very old forms of hate, merely being refined by our new ways to communicate, and our new "role models" of divisive and hateful speech.
{"commentId":11215602,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"templeboy"}
- 13 votes
#7 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:59 AM EST{"commentId":11216144,"authorDomain":"immaginedigitalimag"}
{"commentId":11216144,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"immaginedigitalimag"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":11217171,"authorDomain":"templeboy"}
Love the music, guys.
I have a question:
Our schools are given the responsibility of teaching to this subject. At the very least, the civil rights movement is in the curriculum. My personal opinion is that it is up to the parents to provide the foundation for this type of attitude (one way or the other). That said, what more can the school system do to steer our children to a more toletant disposition?
{"commentId":11217171,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"templeboy"}
- 11 votes
{"commentId":11217361,"authorDomain":"immaginedigitalimag"}
it is up to the parents to provide the foundation for this type of attitude (one way or the other ). That said, what more can the school system do to steer our children to a more tolertant disposition?
If you have ever directly experienced the (mis)behavior and lack of parental qualifications (other than having functional genitals) among a significant number of "parents," you cannot begin to understand the problems faced by school personnel.
A. Macarthur
{"commentId":11217361,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"immaginedigitalimag"}
- 15 votes
{"commentId":11218082,"authorDomain":"templeboy"}
Hey guys,
My wife is a teacher. It's true - there's not much left to change in that area by the time she gets to them in high school.
I would hate to think that we're doomed to this way of life, but it's just a question of ebb and flow. Right now, times are tough, so the beast rears its ugly head more prominently. In good times, we're in too good a mood to spend all that energy hating(?).
{"commentId":11218082,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"templeboy"}
- 10 votes
{"commentId":11242645,"authorDomain":"Aleuicius"}
what more can the school system do to steer our children to a more toletant disposition?
Teach them to learn - guide them on the path they choose. Treat them with tolerance and patience and respect
- rather than enforced conformity and "political correctness" - - or some bureaucratic "scorecard".
You do not successfully force "correctness" - as witnessed by generations of such failure. Force is used by those in a hurry, who "have discovered they gain more power than they would otherwise have by inciting government"
Culture does not change at the end of a club. It hides itself and nurtures it's grievance in the underground, until it has grown to a force for reckoning: even greater, more terrible - and unrecognizable - than it ever was.
Our current culture has no right to be proud of it's accomplishments of the past century-and-a-half. We have hurried and harrassed and forced; then turned away for other conquest - confident in our belief that our brethren will do as they are told and impatient for anything slower, anyway.
{"commentId":11242645,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Aleuicius"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11243194,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11250457,"authorDomain":"Aleuicius"}
Perrie; actually, teachers - unless they buy into the bureaucratic and political "correctness" - are low on the list of offenders. My lovely and patient Lady is a teacher, as are nearly all of her friends - and my position regarding today's education "system" is more apt to bring cheers than sneers. Unfortunately, they are often forced into complicity and that detracts from success.
A good teacher needs nothing but a student; the student, a teacher. What then, is all the rest really for?
Why is the first thing held up as a sacrifice at budget time is the one thing most needed - teachers? Because there is nothing else the People will pay the ransom for.
Off-topic, but relevant to your 7.10
{"commentId":11250457,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Aleuicius"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":11215766,"authorDomain":"atcs"}
Perrie,
Good article. Having grown up around prejudiced people and having lived in the Southeast US for most of two decades during my lifetime, I have seen and heard and, when I was a child, used hateful terms. As people of my age (late 40's) have started to change this culture with our children, I have seen a marked improvement in our acceptance of other's. I have great faith that our children will help accellerate the process and within a couple of generations those who continue to practice their bigoted ways will be the minute percentage of our population. I have seen the progess from my generation and an even greater change from my child's generation. I believe that the changes will continue to advance throughout future generations and the hate will be squelched.
{"commentId":11215766,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"atcs"}
- 11 votes
#8 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:07 PM EST{"commentId":11216744,"authorDomain":"ditchdiggar"}
the elite white liberals. of america. are as much to blame for the continued hate in america. as the white southerner,that has grown-up to be bitter. white elitist liberal,can=me from the hampton's . made a haphazerd attempt to change things. when grew board,or ran out of daddy's money they bailed. went back to the hampton's ,and joined daddy's firm. i hope to live long enough to see the great dr. king's dream come true. " where a man will be judged by the content of his character,and not by the color of his skin,religion" that will be agreat day for all.
{"commentId":11216744,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"ditchdiggar"}
- 4 votes
#9 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:51 PM EST{"commentId":11217079,"authorDomain":"bad4"}
Good article Perrie!
All that has happened is it went underground, and how it is reported depends on the news service what what editorials you choose to read.
I would argue that it has gone underground, because more and more of the population has changed its view. That is progress, even if it isn't wholly there yet.
However, I have to wonder if it ever will be a universal truth that hate is wrong, because no matter how hard we try to get past prejudices, there will always be ignorant people who can not reason out tolerance. They will excuse the abuse with anything they can find that supports their slanted and off color world.
{"commentId":11217079,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"bad4"}
- 12 votes
#10 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:05 PM EST{"commentId":11220702,"authorDomain":"bad4"}
BTW...thanks for your Cat Scan seed. Now I am freaked out, LOL!
I assure you that it wasn't meant to do that, but to instead inform. But yeah, I kind of freaked me a bit too.
When I learned Sociology in College (BTW, My Mother holds a degree in this - LOL) there was a unit we did on this and apparently there are some who are "closet prejudice. The internet gives them a chance to hide behind an avatar, practice bigotry and not have to face anymore consequences then a possibly being kicked off a site. In real life, they would pay a much bigger price.
{"commentId":11220702,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"bad4"}
- 8 votes
{"commentId":11221118,"authorDomain":"bad4"}
Tell me, what did mom do with her sociology degree? Social worker? I am asking because my daughter is thinking of that.
She became a preacher. LOL
It wasn't bad enough that she used to preach at me and my brother and sisters, now she is licensed to preach at people. LOL
{"commentId":11221118,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"bad4"}
- 8 votes
{"commentId":11223763,"authorDomain":"bad4"}
I could never win before, but now I can hang up the phone......
{"commentId":11223763,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"bad4"}
- 7 votes
{"commentId":11218589,"authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
So what have we just learned. Well, despite the fact that we have elected our first African American President, the most amount of hate crime is directed towards blacks. Of all hate crimes in the US 72.9% was directed towards African Americans. Seems that some of us missed the civil rights movement.
I hate to rain on your parade, but these %'s are pretty much in line with these various groups % of the population. Whites and blacks commit hate crimes in proportion to their numbers.
{"commentId":11218589,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
- 7 votes
#11 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:08 PM EST{"commentId":11220028,"authorDomain":"spikegary"}
Thought provoking article, Perrie. Hate has existed since the beginning of mankind and will always be a part of our lives, the only hope is to educate our children and hope they progress in their belief systems and move the sticks furhter down the field every generation.
I do have some issues with the statistics above and the way they are collected and grouped. I didn't see any figures for Anti-white crime. To me, that slants the argument that only white people are committing hate crimes to all the other groups. This is nowhere near the truth. This kind of statistical information causes some people to believe it's all white people's fault and gives some whites the reason to feel threatened and in a corner ready to lash out. Until the government places statistics for all groups, at least all major groups and similar reporting and charging standards are used, the reporting will be skewed. As you know, we have a case pending in my area right now, young couple, white man, black woman, romantically involved, kept receiving threats from a group of black youths because of their interracial relationship. One day members of this group cornered this guy and assaulted him, coming close to killing him. When they finally charged a couple people months later, they did not add the 'hate crime' tag on it. Why? There is some debate-the prosecutor says lack of evidence. Others involved say they don't want to upset local black people. If the situation were reversed, it would be classified a hate crime-when any group is treated unfairly, it gives people a reason to hate.....or at least a reason to justify their hate.
{"commentId":11220028,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"spikegary"}
- 10 votes
{"commentId":11226348,"authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
John,
Hate crimes are those committed on a people. 17% of Americans are black, yet they have the highest rate 72.9% of the hate crime done to them. If that is not bigotry, I don't know what is. And hate crime is defined as one group against another, so this is not black on black crime. It might be an ugly fact, but still one non the less.
Let me explain it to you like this, and I hope this takes. I will reduce it to black and white for the sake of simplicity, although there are other groups that factor in slightly.
If you look at the percentage of white and blacks in the US population, it is something like 73 white 13 black. The 72.9 % of hate crimes directed against blacks roughly mirrors the white population. The hate crime % against whites roughly mirrors the black population.
If every white and black person in America committed a hate crime, the percentages of the total for each would be roughly where they are in the report you cite.
If everyone committed a hate crime , would you say whites are more likely to commit a hate crime than blacks? No, you could not say that because the percentage would reflect their percentage of the population. Same for the blacks.
These figures have to be looked at in the proper context or you going to get far afield.
{"commentId":11226348,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11228634,"authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
Let's put it like this for the moment - what do you think it would take for the hate crimes against whites to reach 73 percent of the total? There aren't enough minority group members in the country to make that happen.
{"commentId":11228634,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11229048,"authorDomain":"stevef"}
John,
I see the logic you are using... Let me be sure I have this straight...
You are saying that because there are lots of us white folks and not as many black people, it is perfectly normal to expect more hate crimes against blacks because there are so many more of us to commit the crimes.
Then, assuming I have correctly understood your logic, you are essentially saying... Hey this is no big deal, this is what we should expect... nothing out of the ordinary here.
Oh yeah that makes lots of sense... A "relatively" small group of people is having the largest number of injustices committed against them, and we should sit back and say... Well DUH!!! Of course that is what we should expect because there are so many of us to commit the injustices... Good grief, why do you have your feathers all in a fluff over something that is so predictable?
Just goes to show... you can justify pretty much anything if you put your mind to it.
{"commentId":11229048,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"stevef"}
- 9 votes
{"commentId":11229599,"authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
I am not justifying it, I am telling you it is "impossible" to have a much different result, given the great disparity in population between blacks and whites. Whites are going to commit more hate crimes, by far, even if the rate or proportion committed by blacks and whites is 'equal'. The fact is hate crimes against whites , as a percentage, are roughly equal to the percentage of non-whites in the country, and the percentage of hate crimes against non whites are roughly equal to the percentage of whites in the country. You can decry the 'unfairness' of this all you want , but these figures point to hate crime being an equal opportunity employer.
{"commentId":11229599,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":11230451,"authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
And I will add as a bit of clarification, a link to a video, of an NPR broadcast from 2007 where the interviewed expert, a gentlemen from the Southern Law Poverty Center, the noted civil rights group, acknowledges that blacks commit hate crimes at a higher rate than whites.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuA_Rzae5-g
_____________________________
This year the anti-black numbers are up, evidently there have been other years when the anti-white numbers are up. The point is, the premise of this article, that whites commit hate crimes , a lot, and other groups don't, is mistaken.
{"commentId":11230451,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11230751,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
The speaker in this interview is discussing FBI stats that
do include race of the perpetrator unlike the article stats .
I wonder why the difference in reporting method ?
{"commentId":11230751,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":11233793,"authorDomain":"stevef"}
John,
I am not justifying it, I am telling you it is "impossible" to have a much different result
Okay... your not justifying it... but I do not agree with your point that "it is impossible to have a much different result." Hate crimes do not happen purely as a function of the number of total people... say, the way the production of CO2 happens when we expel our breath. Other things effect the number of hate crimes... Like the way we teach our children... The point made by the Rogers and Hammerstein song Perrie put at the beginning of this article.... Like the kind of propaganda promulgated by biased organizations... Like ignorance and intolerance... If we work to thwart these things, then no matter how many more white people there are than black people there will be less hate and less hate crimes.
So... It sounds like your point is that white people are no more hateful than black people... I suppose that is true... we are all humans, with an EQUAL capacity to love and hate... But I think it is worth looking at WHY people hate... There is no disputing the fact that white people perpetrated horrendous crimes on black people... centuries of slavery... Officially slavery ended in 1865 (in the US)... following that a century of gross Jim Crow crimes... Even after we passed the civil rights act, hate, hate crimes, and discrimination continue... Now whites are saying they are unfairly discriminated against... Oh poor us... When people are left in situations that feel hopeless, their actions are taken out of desperation... That is equally true for whites and blacks... If we really want to diminish hatred we need to work to eliminate the feeling of hopelessness that disadvantaged whites and blacks have... When there is less hopelessness, there will be less hatred.
{"commentId":11233793,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"stevef"}
- 9 votes
{"commentId":11233879,"authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
White racism is far far more prevalent than black racism, even today. There is no question about it. But this thread is not simply about racism, it is about hate crime. The information and the statistics don't really support the contention of the article's author.
{"commentId":11233879,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11235459,"authorDomain":"stevef"}
How about MY contention John???
If we really want to diminish hatred we need to work to eliminate the feeling of hopelessness that disadvantaged whites and blacks have... When there is less hopelessness, there will be less hatred.
{"commentId":11235459,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"stevef"}
- 7 votes
{"commentId":11242090,"authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
There are appx. 40 million blacks in the US. Let's say half of them are children, probably not the likely victims of hate crimes. That leaves 20 million . 20000000/3000. So appx 1 out of every 7000 blacks were victims of a hate crime last year. That is still a very small number any way you cut it.
{"commentId":11242090,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":11255054,"authorDomain":"worldknightboy"}
However, it is believed that hate crimes are vastly under-reported. It could be a much higher number than just 1 out of 7000!
{"commentId":11255054,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"worldknightboy"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11280694,"authorDomain":"patricolsen"}
Hi Mal, I wanted to say Hello to my good friend. - isn't it all "ironic?" I find what you say to be always sincere and from the heart....wish more could see that. I am bummed by some debates on things but I see beneath the words of education. Just sayin and I'm behind you always, with my poop bag. LoL....you know someone has to come along and clean up the @!$%#...lol Muah- Hek:) and great to see you and hope you are getting Merry for Christmas! La La La, La La La, La La La La La, La La La, La La La La, La La La La La La Lah.
{"commentId":11280694,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"patricolsen"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":11218695,"authorDomain":"sunrisegolf"}
Great article, Perrie...Friend request sent.
I grew up in the northeast and now live in the southeast. Hate is alive in both regions, but it is much more in the open down here.
{"commentId":11218695,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"sunrisegolf"}
- 7 votes
#12 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:12 PM EST{"commentId":11218834,"authorDomain":"Jivatmanx"}
Racism is a relatively ingrained behavior that is very difficult for individuals to change.
However, young people in general are vastly less racist than the older generation. Reductions in the overall amount of racism are mostly due to older people dieing and being replaced by younger ones.
That's why it takes time. And, of course, it's mostly the old that still have positions of power. But I challenge those who really believe we are overall a racist country to go to any mixed-race high school and you will be hearted to see how so many of the groups of friends are mixed race, and how colorblind the younger generation really is.
{"commentId":11218834,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Jivatmanx"}
- 6 votes
#13 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:18 PM EST{"commentId":11227357,"authorDomain":"Jivatmanx"}
If you went back only a few decades ago there would be no racial mixing of friends.
In any case, I don't believe that forming a group of friends with your race means that you are racist,
In middle school and high school friend groups can be chosen for reasons even more superficial, such as the clothes one wears. It it simply a byproduct of the all-pervading desire to fit in, that is so charecteristic of those years.
One will likely find that those of mixed groups are those who are more mature and sure of themselves, and thus are more of an indicator of the future than those who still have not developed a strong identity of self.
{"commentId":11227357,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Jivatmanx"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":11229701,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
The community at large calls homosexuals "gay" for the same reason
it calls African Americans "black" . These are the labels that these
groups selected for themselves years ago .
{"commentId":11229701,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11232095,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
" Not that there's anything wrong with that. "
Jerry Seinfeld
{"commentId":11232095,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11234960,"authorDomain":"redsfan"}
When my daughters were in high school (5-7 years ago), it was fashionable for their peers to call anything or anyone they were making fun of "gay". When they said it in front of me, I reacted very strongly and pointed out to them that it was not appropriate and why. They were first upset with me for criticizing their use of words, then (because of my interference), more aware of what their friends were saying, and eventually, agreed with me completely that it was not appropriate. Now they would not even consider using such language as a derogatory comment.
That is the role parents should take in their kids education...point out the easy slurs and make them think about it. It is so easy for children to pick up attitudes and speech that are inappropriate because they don't THINK...at first.
{"commentId":11234960,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"redsfan"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":11235689,"authorDomain":"stevef"}
A point VERY well made redsfan!
point out the easy slurs and make them think about it. It is so easy for children to pick up attitudes and speech that are inappropriate because they don't THINK...
Encouraging kids to think about what they are doing (think about pretty much everything for that matter) is probably the single most important thing we can do for them. I especially mean thinking with empathy... or applying the Golden Rule in every possible way. This is important not only to discourage bad behavior and bad habit formation as youths but to foster the "thinking" process in the adults that those kids will someday become.
{"commentId":11235689,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"stevef"}
- 7 votes
{"commentId":11237383,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11250804,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
They tell me that there is subtle bigotry in their high school. There seems that there are two kinds of kids in my daughters' high school, those that hang out with all kinds of people and those who hang only with "their kind". This second group is probably no different then probably the adults in their lives. It is a sad fact, but it is true.
Interesting.
And it raises an interesting question-- why the difference in attitude between the two groups? (Probably not an easy question to answer-- but IMO an important one).
And-- if they all go to the same school, over time the effect of different teachers probably balances out-- so the school doesn't explain the differences between the two groups. My guess would be (and its only a guess) that the differencwe is due to attitudes that they learn at home.
Have your kids offered any explanations as to why the two groups have such different attitudes?
{"commentId":11250804,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11252479,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11255426,"authorDomain":"Mariyam"}
In response to 13.11
"krishna-167929
They tell me that there is subtle bigotry in their high school. There seems that there are two kinds of kids in my daughters' high school, those that hang out with all kinds of people and those who hang only with "their kind". This second group is probably no different then probably the adults in their lives. It is a sad fact, but it is true.
Interesting.
And it raises an interesting question-- why the difference in attitude between the two groups? (Probably not an easy question to answer-- but IMO an important one)."
With the exception of the neighborhood I grew up in where I attended my first 7 years of school (and college), I've been in situations where the school and/or the area I lived in were all black or all white. I hated being in both because they were both hostile. I have been happiest and have thrived the most in environments that are racially and culturally diverse because I have found that generally, people in mixed environments are more tolerant than those in environments that are made of up only one race. I've also found that in almost all cases, the reason that the areas are all white or black is because the people who live there want it that way.
{"commentId":11255426,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Mariyam"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":11259695,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11220392,"authorDomain":"bzajr3"}
Perrie:
Just wondering why you don't have the statistics for "Anti-White" hate groups?
{"commentId":11220392,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"bzajr3"}
- 3 votes
#14 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:23 PM EST{"commentId":11226576,"authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
I listed the highest stats for each group. But for the record, 22% of all hate crimes are done to white people, who make up 79% of the population of the U.S. as opposed to the 72.9% of hate crime done against blacks who make up 17% of the US population. And this article was not about hate groups, but random hate crimes.
You are misunderstanding the use of the percentages. Proportionally, there could be more blacks committing hate crimes than whites, your statistics do not reveal this either way. But put it like this if every black person in the country committed one hate crime against a white, only 13-15% of the total number of hate crimes would be against whites. If every white person in America committed one hate crime against a black, that would account for 73% of the total. Ring a bell?
{"commentId":11226576,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":11229648,"authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
I said roughly, and I believe whites are a higher percentage than 66, unless we are counting illegal aliens.
Your argument is that whites commit hate crime, and blacks are victims, out of proportion, and that is just not the case.
{"commentId":11229648,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":11229916,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
You're both doing the math wrong .
It is expressed strictly by victim , not by perpetrator .
However , we have to assume that black on black "hate"
and white on white "hate" are not included in these stats .
Then black hate crime is committed by the proportion of the
population that is non-black [87%] .
Likewise the proportion committing white hate crime is
100 - 66% = 34% . These 2 ratio out at 87/34 = 2.56 to 1 .
Comparing this to the crime ratio of 4 to 1 shows a substantially
higher rate of hate crimes committed against blacks than
against whites . But this does not reveal who is committing these crimes .
{"commentId":11229916,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11230116,"authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
I don't dispute your figures, much, and I don't think we are using all that different logic. However, you are assuming that 34 % of the population is non white, and that hate crimes against 'whites' only refer to non-Hispanic whites. I don't think the percentages in her argument make that distinction.
If your division became 87/25 instead of 87/34 the rates would be much closer to equal.
The 2008 census material has whites at 75% when you include so called hispanic whites.
{"commentId":11230116,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":11230261,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
In order to settle this we have to know how they defined
the white victims . Do they include "Hispanic whites" ?
{"commentId":11230261,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11230509,"authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
Don't know.
{"commentId":11230509,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":11230625,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
Perrie or anyone ,
Can you answer this ?
{"commentId":11230625,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11230642,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11230721,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11230752,"authorDomain":"lilith41"}
There is also Hispanic mixed with white too.......
Not just Hispanic whites like Gisele Bundchen either...
{"commentId":11230752,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"lilith41"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11230753,"authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
I don't believe you are successfully answering the question. And what was surprising about that table?
{"commentId":11230753,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":11230959,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11231342,"authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
I am not being snarky, I am asking you a question. I did not see anything surprising in that table, but evidently you did. What is it?
{"commentId":11231342,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11231387,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
No Perrie ,
I agree with John . You are not correctly answering the question
that I asked .
And what is surprising ?
{"commentId":11231387,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11231522,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11231629,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
More importantly , was the statistician who gathered these data capable ?
Eg . he included anti-white bias done by whites and
anti-black bias done by blacks . What do these stats even mean ?
How do they demonstrate "bias" ?
Are these examples of trying to keep someone else
"in his place " ?
{"commentId":11231629,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11231705,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
It stated that hate crime had to be one group against another.
Exactly . So my question is , how did they define the "white"
victims [in the original data you gave] ? Did they include
Hispanic whites or not ?
{"commentId":11231705,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11231901,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11232163,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
IMO the table 5 data shows a lack of forethought
in how the data was gathered and analysed .
I don't trust the data or the implied meaning
of the grouping .
The number you reported above of "Anti- Black 2,876"
was identical to the number in your article which
was supposedly from the DOJ . So now I don't know
who is the source of this data . So I guess my original
question is not going to get answered .
{"commentId":11232163,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11233919,"authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
I think, NSZ and Perrie, that you listened to the NPR video that I linked to above, You may recall that in that video the SPLC expert said the hate crime statistics are always incomplete and somewhat unreliable.
{"commentId":11233919,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"JohnRussell"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":11243254,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
Perrie ,
What is the breakdown of the "white victims" ?
You gave a stat of 716 such victims .
Do they include white hispanics or not ?
{"commentId":11243254,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11248485,"authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
I was hoping you could point to the source of the stat of 716 for white hate crimes .
That table 5 I find suspect .
{"commentId":11248485,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"nonStitiousZealot"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11248855,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11221247,"authorDomain":"UNCLEMIKE"}
With a few exceptions, the posts about your article are encouraging. I'm a mutt ( though certainly not in group that suffers discrimination) and my wife is Hispanic with Sephardic ancestry.
So in the back of my mind, I've compiled a sad list of small slights and insensitive remarks and exclusions that have quietly peppered our lives over the years. There is a core of suspicion of the unfamiliar in all of us and it's usually just the extreme haters that get into the statistics.
Except for those "Olympians of Intolerance" though, we have advanced over the years in accepting and integrating many groups into an American culture enriched by Music and food and film. It's one of the reasons that much of the planet admires us. We are still young as a culture but in some ways we have advanced beyond our source countries.
I always found it strange that our wars (especially WWII) have blended our regional populations, and folded our former enemies and allies into becoming our parents, spouses and children. We Amercans do have a gift to resist, accept and then move on together. I don't want to create a rosy picture, there are more than enough disturbing trends of political polarization used to fuel intolerance.
I think the haters fear the future and they really fear their ultimate irrelevence. I won't ignore them, though. The drag us all backwards.
{"commentId":11221247,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"UNCLEMIKE"}
- 4 votes
#15 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:59 PM EST{"commentId":11223405,"authorDomain":"UNCLEMIKE"}
On the other hand, I am almost glad that so many of the extremists actually feel emboldened and validated by some off the wall politicians and media nuts.
I appreciate it when unvarnished bigots are flushed into the open where we can all see them. The internet is anonymous but these folks actually seem relieved to come out into sunlight. Too bad they can't see themselves.
Anyway, good article and good posts.
{"commentId":11223405,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"UNCLEMIKE"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11223459,"authorDomain":"scarmouth"}
Speaking of statistics, Perrie....in which group falls people (like the prez) who are termed bi-racial? This may skew the black percentage higher b/c (also like the prez), it seems a majority of those with one black & one white parent tend to ID themselves as being black. Just sayin'.
{"commentId":11223459,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"scarmouth"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":11225185,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11232816,"authorDomain":"scarmouth"}
Thanks, I wondered.
{"commentId":11232816,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"scarmouth"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":11233664,"authorDomain":"EllieP"}
Wow, that's lower than I would have thought. I'm willing to wager it's far higher and that will show on the 2010 census results.
{"commentId":11233664,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"EllieP"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":11237527,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11221902,"authorDomain":"worldknightboy"}
Just amazing that the numbers are not greater. But like you said in your rape analogy, these types of crimes are probably greatly under-reported. Still, when one considers how heavily armed we citizens are in this country, its even more incredible that more of us aren't blowing each other away far more frequently out of such animus. Maybe you know, Perrie, but is there some similarity between the perpetrators? I imagine young, straight males of all backgrounds are the ones doing most of the crimes.....
{"commentId":11221902,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"worldknightboy"}
- 7 votes
#16 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:22 PM EST{"commentId":11222397,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11223013,"authorDomain":"worldknightboy"}
Perhaps off base a little, but could you provide us as well with your speculations on why the whole era of the civil rights movement wasn't optimized? I mean, why do you think we didn't completely 'get it right the first time', in that era of momentous change? It seemed to me that we really didn't do a collective 'soul-searching' regarding equality and respect back then, and so what remedy/remedies might you propose now to get our collective heart in the right place?
{"commentId":11223013,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"worldknightboy"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11233682,"authorDomain":"EllieP"}
Whoa, friends. Remember Switzerland. You shouldn't be surprised that the higher the percentage of the population is armed, the lower the personal crime rate goes.
{"commentId":11233682,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"EllieP"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11237584,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11237798,"authorDomain":"stevef"}
Hey Ellie... I see you lost your "hat" ;-) What happened???
{"commentId":11237798,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"stevef"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":11238994,"authorDomain":"worldknightboy"}
Good point, Ellie! Yeah, perhaps I need to think it through- I'm pro-gun, but really am not current on the deterrent statistics home ownership of guns has on crime, particularly hate crimes. Hmmm?
{"commentId":11238994,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"worldknightboy"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11241687,"authorDomain":"EllieP"}
Perrie, oops stuck my foot in that one. I forgot about that, really. Sorry.
Mal, yes just trying to even out my entire internet identity. It was too confusing. No hidden symbolism or special spiritual meaning. ;D
wkb, it's not really my area of expertise either, but the general (non-derail) explanation is that those who break the law don't let gun control laws stand in their way resulting in fewer guns in the hands of the good guys (and a more sitting duck population). And, that's all I've got to say about that on this hate crimes board. =P
{"commentId":11241687,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"EllieP"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11243323,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11222507,"authorDomain":"jewel-one"}
Perrie, I have lived in the US for 28 years and am still shocked by the racism that permeates this country.
{"commentId":11222507,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"jewel-one"}
- 5 votes
#17 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:44 PM EST{"commentId":11227162,"authorDomain":"UNCLEMIKE"}
commonsense
Believe it or not, it used to be worse. Perhaps some of it was just driven underground.
Some posts above questioned, what happened after the Civil Rights Act signed in by Johnson? I'm not sure, somehow we lost our way by assuming that the battle was won. We like to sock a problem on the jaw and then go home. Except that this condition is in our home and we still ignore it.
It's also tragic that Johnson became mired in an ill-considered overseas conflict because his commitment to Civil Rights was a landmark that has been lost in history. It's almost as though later leaders have been unwilling or afraid to alienate the bigots who might vote for them.
I can't blame leadership any more than I blame citizens for enabling haters to fracture our national character. We are perceived to be no better than our worst examples but I still believe that though they present a more vocal front, that they are a diminishing species.
{"commentId":11227162,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"UNCLEMIKE"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":11252100,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
Perrie, I have lived in the US for 28 years and am still shocked by the racism that permeates this country.
i think there are two aspects to that. Yes-- there's a lot of racism. But I think its considerably less than most other places on the planet.
{"commentId":11252100,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":11222530,"authorDomain":"joe-1280782"}
Hi Perrie, I just read the byline real quickly and I am on my way out the door in a few moments...but your headline struck me, and although that is quite true about learning to hate, it is also quite rampant in other countries as well...When you are taught as a child to hate Americans or Hate the Chinese or hate the Blacks..It can stick with you for a long time and in some cases it never goes away..I will comment more later when I get home from work(Playing Jazz Guitar in a Big Band)
{"commentId":11222530,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"joe-1280782"}
- 4 votes
#18 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:45 PM EST{"commentId":11223620,"authorDomain":"gparents2000"}
I wonder where the figures are that show the hate crimes committed against whites? Either white people are not hated or they have no crime committed against them. Is that what it is to mean? Just because a perosn is white they cannot have a hate crime perpetrated against them? Just because a person is white they cannot be offended by racist talk? Or is it white people generally rise above it and pay it no mind?
I am really confused. All of these figures and whites are not even mentioned. Sorry to be a bubble buster. But the point is this people hate peopel regardless of skin color, sex, religion or any thing else oyu want to throw in the pot. I am said I cannot speak my mind without the fear of being labled.
Save the excuse a majority cannot be discriminated against. Taht is jsut an excuse to discriminate. Sorry I veiw people as people. Not as a majority or minority. Taht is the problem. Everyone wants to be equal but do not realize we are putting ourselves in groups every day.
{"commentId":11223620,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"gparents2000"}
- 1 vote
#19 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:30 PM EST{"commentId":11234448,"authorDomain":"gparents2000"}
Would assume there is a stat for hate crimes committed with one race as well. To me crime is crime. I make no distinction.
Sorry if you thought I was putting words into your mouth. I was a preluding to the usual response not one afore mentioned.
I would love to see all the hate groups that are racial motivated disappear. Unfortunately that will exist as long as man exist. It is in our very nature. We are always struggling to be number one. Actually I personally rather enjoy being number last. A lot less pressure and stress.
{"commentId":11234448,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"gparents2000"}
{"commentId":11237099,"authorDomain":"ryanat"}
Concerned75, I agree that we need to stop putting people in groups, we see it everyday, and it separates us. Just look at the politics, it's all about this groups votes and that group. It should be about one group, and that is the American people. But the politicians like to separate people as it works to their advantage.
{"commentId":11237099,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"ryanat"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":11237623,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11252127,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
Concerned75, I agree that we need to stop putting people in groups, we see it everyday, and it separates us. Just look at the politics, it's all about this groups votes and that group. It should be about one group, and that is the American people.
The problem with that though is that people have different opinions, different values. The only way to have them all agree is by having a dictatorship.
{"commentId":11252127,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":11259820,"authorDomain":"gparents2000"}
Of course it would be great to live in a world without hate and bigotry. But all races will have that mixed in in reality. Just as disrespect, robbery and murder exist. No one can legislate good morals or ideals. It is how we deal with the issues that matters.
One point though. Not all that is labled hate and bigotry really is. We must be careful how we lable things.
{"commentId":11259820,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"gparents2000"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":11261999,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11224581,"authorDomain":"Carol-1960"}
I think that the election of Obama may have brought some of the feelings of hatred toward blacks to the surface as discussed in this article.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/17/obama.witchdoctor.teaparty/index.html?eref=time_us
"Now we have a black president, which means, on its most basic level, that a black man has more power than any single white citizen in this country," Cobb said. "Whether people want to admit it or not, I suspect the Tea Party crowd believes that the currency of whiteness has been devalued.
The witch doctor poster is clearly racist, but some of the tea partiers have tried to pass if off as being "satirical."
{"commentId":11224581,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Carol-1960"}
- 4 votes
#20 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:18 PM EST{"commentId":11225761,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11237496,"authorDomain":"Carol-1960"}
Yes, Obama's election does show that we have made progress since many white people did vote for a black man.
I think the witch doctor poster is one of the most offensive examples of racism that I have ever seen.
{"commentId":11237496,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"Carol-1960"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":11237666,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11225105,"authorDomain":"demosthene"}
Concerned75,
The definition of a hate or bias motivated crime is not limited to one skin color or one gender, or one sexual orientation. If you are attacked by an Asian woman and beaten with a pipe as she screams "Die honky, die, you white MF," she is committing a bias-motivated crime. If she just beats you with that pipe and doesn't say a word, the bias is removed from the equation.
The reason that more people are not charged with hate crimes is that most folks, even criminals, are not so stupid as to announce their racist intentions in front of other people. The civil rights movement accomplished at least that much.
Hate is just one more factor in the overall complexion of a crime. Acknowledging hate exacerbates the idea of intention, and intention is half of the equation when it comes to proving a crime.
{"commentId":11225105,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"demosthene"}
- 5 votes
#21 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:41 PM EST{"commentId":11225794,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11225579,"authorDomain":"ddickinson-1"}
Well, Perrie, I think a lot has changed. Could it be better? Absolutely. Is it better than it was? Oh hell, yes.
The changes are subtle, sometimes, but it is change. I've seen it in my lifetime.
I think you have to look at it in context and consider what we're asking for. Perfect peace and harmony is a pipe dream. Improvement is a slow hard climb, but well within our grasp. We cannot lose track of the small, incremental advances over the last thirty years.
Statistics are vague, ephemeral and fuzzy, I don't care who compiled them. I would not let a list of numbers diminsh my hopes.
So as far as the title of your article......I can't agree.
Still love ya, though.
{"commentId":11225579,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"ddickinson-1"}
- 6 votes
#22 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:59 PM EST{"commentId":11225981,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11226541,"authorDomain":"ddickinson-1"}
Um, what happens if I don't agree to disagree?
the same groups that were hated 40 years ago are still the same groups that are hated now.
Because the groups that existed then still exist now.
I will bet anything you like, that if all of America were to suddenly wake up tomorrow all of the same race, the same people would still hate. Haters need a group to hate, and they will find it.
It has nothing to do with race or crime or affluence or statistics. It has to do with individuals who cannot exist unless they belong to the eternal "us".
The unfortunate thing, and the reason for the hate, is that the "us" cannot exist with out a "them".
Do you need examples? Soweto. Bosnia. Georgia (the country, not the state) The Sudan. Cambodia. Laos. Tibet. The Aztecs. Pre-contact North America. Japan. Plymouth Colony. France. China. Italy.
Each and every one of these places slaughtered or imprisoned or otherwise hated members of their own race. In most cases, they even shared the same language, cultural history and religion as their victims.
And this is not history. In some of these places, this slaughter is happening now. Today.
I've done things in my forties that would have gotten me shot, hung or beat to death when I was in my twenties..
America has a long way to go. But we've come a long way already.
{"commentId":11226541,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"ddickinson-1"}
- 8 votes
{"commentId":11229065,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11229239,"authorDomain":"ddickinson-1"}
You are such a pain in the @$$, LOL!
Gosh. I think she likes me :-)
{"commentId":11229239,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"ddickinson-1"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":11227106,"authorDomain":"redphish-1"}
1.0 % were targeted because of disability
The fact that this is even a hate crime category is a sad witness to how screwed up humans can be.
{"commentId":11227106,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"redphish-1"}
- 3 votes
#23 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:11 PM EST{"commentId":11232828,"authorDomain":"scarmouth"}
I think it's like the way some people are so virulent in speaking out against folks who get welfare & food stamps. There seems to be a prevalent myth that anyone receving help from the gov't is on Easy Street & it's almost like they're jealous that they're not eligible or something. Also think it may be less of a hate crime than simply seeing an easy mark for robbery etc. Maybe there should be a category for senior citizens, too.
{"commentId":11232828,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"scarmouth"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":11237862,"authorDomain":"perrie"}
{"commentId":11227171,"authorDomain":"sbuzzc76"}
Hey Periie,
Just finished breakfast and have to go to teach (as you know I'm on the other side of the world) so I will later on be back to contribute to your great article. From what I have read in the comments so far is that there are some who may dispute your statistics and/or application of them, but there are many more who understand and agree with the point you are making. What you have quoted is sufficiently accurate to make people think. What does seem to be missing are the commenters who have the most to learn from your topic.
Plus ca change, plus la meme chose. The more things change, the more they stay the same. (...and unfortunately they will.)
{"commentId":11227171,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"sbuzzc76"}
- 6 votes
#24 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:15 PM EST{"commentId":11227750,"authorDomain":"worldknightboy"}
What does seem to be missing are the commenters who have the most to learn from your topic.
LOL!!!
{"commentId":11227750,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"worldknightboy"}
- 7 votes
{"commentId":11227813,"authorDomain":"lilith41"}
Awww, Perrie, this isn't new. This is a daily part of my life........ =(
The only thing that has changed is the ability to at least talk about it......
{"commentId":11227813,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"lilith41"}
- 5 votes
#25 - Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:47 PM EST{"commentId":11229316,"authorDomain":"lilith41"}
Oh, I'm not a bigot, m'dear. My point is that I'm on the receiving end of this bigotry....=(
That's all...
The numbers are numbers but it doesn't change the reality of those of us that suffer with this.
{"commentId":11229316,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"lilith41"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":11229814,"authorDomain":"lilith41"}
Oops! I goofed. Sorry!!!! ++blushes+++
The numbers, the numbers, what to do ???? My question is this why should anyone be reduced to a piece of data? Any human that suffers prejudice for skin color, looks, gender, race, ethnicity., etc like I have and worse is one that suffers is one number too many.
I simply cannot condone the attitude, that' it's inevitable so why do anything" one. I find apathy to more, much more dangerous than outright hate at times.
To fix this, education about each other is a must! Cooperation between communities on a regular basis can help really fix this, but all must participate and continue this for it succeed. Hate comes from fear and people hate what they fear, education can save the new generation and can save those who are simply ignorant VS those who are willfully ignorant.
Willful ignorance paired with outright apathy can destroy the soul of the human race, it removes the word "human" from human race.....
To do nothing in the face of injustice is the same to approve and abet that injustice....
This is my opinion, Perrie......
{"commentId":11229814,"threadId":"746157","contentId":"3565635","authorDomain":"lilith41"}
- 3 votes
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