Dennis Kucinich booted from Iowa debate

That's precisely why his standing in the polls is so low, people simply aren't hearing his message. The media is deliberately silencing him, he's not towing the party line and catering to the corporate interests. If his message were heard, the polls would be much more in his favor, he's truly the only candidate with the people's best interests at heart...

Hear, hear, Hamid and everyone in this forum who is justifiably outraged.

What is this? High school? The kid with the most (corporate) friends wins?

Sham is right! I'm disgusted. Celestina has arrived at a sound and (characteristically) positive solution to the fiasco. All candidates should stand united against this travesty of democracy.

The corporations and mainstream media have the American people in a stranglehold and they don't plan to release their grip.

I love Kucinich! He's the only honest politician among the bunch. Moreover, he's not in the game for himself but because he actually gives a damn about America, its citizens and the rest of the world.

Is it too late to write another letter, Celestina?

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

How can American point the finger at the Russian elections when this sort of thing goes on. From an outsider's point of view it seems to me that the candidate who raises the most money (i.e. has the most corporate friends) wins - is that how it works? Wake up to living in a plutocracy America.

he gets and takes no money for corporations.. hence he dotn have the big advertising dollars.. or the free corporate avertisement in the form of news casts of course he is marginalised and mostly unknown to the majority of sheeple that still get all their info fromt eh corproate media.

Kucinich is too far to the left to be viable. I'm not saying this as a criticism. I think he's great. I, too, am too far to the left to be viable in public office.

He is exactly what this country needs. However, most of us don't automatically gravitate toward the things that are good for us. Like a generous helping of green vegetables, we push him to the side of the plate and leave him there.

Wake up to living in a plutocracy America.

he gets and takes no money for corporations.. hence he dotn have the big advertising dollars.. or the free corporate avertisement in the form of news casts of course he is marginalised and mostly unknown to the majority of sheeple that still get all their info fromt eh corproate media.

I wonder if one day, in the not so distant future, the Constitution will become an officially reviled document or perhaps even publicly burned; while those who seek to uphold its principles will be viewed as traitors . . . Hmmmm?

I agree with your remark, douglas. And I share your sentiments. However, what we've come to regard as "left" in American politics is, from what I hear, pretty middle-of-the-road in places like England and Europe.

It's a shame that issues such as averting the disaster brought about by global warming, providing universal healthcare, eradicating poverty, ending the war in Iraq and refusing to drop bombs on Tehran are considered "radical" in America.

I suppose this dismal state of affairs came about because the almighty corporation and its initiates don't consider such issues to be "profit-friendly."

But when we eventually go down because of self-serving and short-sighted corporate money lust, we're all going down together. Apparently, the plutocrats could give a bigger damn about their children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren and future generations to come.

However, what we've come to regard as "left" in American politics is, from what I hear, pretty middle-of-the-road in places like England and Europe.

It's a shame they don't vote here. :-)

However, what we've come to regard as "left" in American politics is, from what I hear, pretty middle-of-the-road in places like England and Europe.
It's a shame they don't vote here. :-)

Since we're scrapping the Constitution,why not the Declaration as well. Maybe we could give it back to them. George III seemed mild.... compared to "George II."

The rot of class elites, and their class instiutions, with their class, corporate values, always undermines democracy, because property rights always undermine human rights. Privileged class standards is exactly that, exclusive, to keep others out.

what we've come to regard as "left" in American politics is ...

considered right by this European. No wonder Blair was at home with Clinton and Bush - he wouldn't notice the difference.

I should add to that comment that I'm talking politicians rather than Dem supporters. The Vine has been very good at showing this ignorant outsider the difference :)

Thanks, David. As far as Dem supporters? Most of the Dems these days are Repuglican-lites, as I'm sure you've already realized.

It's a worrisome state of affairs, to say the least.

Yes, the political process is rigged because both class parties use their class hierarchies to filter out inclusive democratic and social leaders, and their ideology, for the class ideology, and servile middle layers, to reproduce the class despotism at all levels, the corporate media, the class parties, the executive and congression branches, and finally the Supreme court that never consistently uphold the Constiutition, just look at the history of slavery, Japanese internment, and innocent detainees being held on exclusive class arguments that manipulate democracy into the empty shell it is. Appearances, and sterile arguments are the basis of all class regimes. Kucinich needs to break from these class parties, and start up independent poltical alliances with the Greens, socialists, and constitutionalists opposed to their class manipulation, rotten class outlook.

(who I assume coordinate with the DNC)

I don't know if that can be an accurate assumption given the states that tried to jump the agreed upon primary dates despite urging from the DNC. The state parties can have a fair degree of autonomy.

Sometimes with something so blatantly wrong, I feel very hopeless about change in this country. It is just one of the most demoralizing things to see the corporate control over everything. I could cry. I did however write an email to the Register. They weren't answering their phones. I find this so appalling. My voice seems so small. We send people to die fighting to protect this kind of thing?

Extremist Moderate...who does Kucinich think he is??? What kind of a question is that?

redruby? Extremist had her\his tongue lodged firmly in the cheek. EM's on our side.

;-)

Sometimes with something so blatantly wrong, I feel very hopeless about change in this country. It is just one of the most demoralizing things to see the corporate control over everything. I could cry. I did however write an email to the Register. They weren't answering their phones. I find this so appalling. My voice seems so small. We send people to die fighting to protect this kind of thing?

Beautifully stated, redruby. I'm close to despair, too. The sad thing is that are probably more of "us" out there than we'll ever know. But the MSM and the powers-that-be have effected a total black-out on those voices (outcries) of reason.

I think there are so many more of us but we are being silenced and marginalized. Look at the energy bill just defeated by the Repubs this morning...help for poor people w/heating, but it included a take back of the massive tax credits Bush gave to BIG OIL. Big oil companies have been raking in record profits...quarterly profits in the billions of dollars, yet they get tax breaks. What the hell is going on here. Old people can't afford to heat their homes in the winter. Kids don't have health care.

What the hell is going on here. Old people can't afford to heat their homes in the winter. Kids don't have health care.

We, the people, have been abandoned and, as you say, marginalized. The margin is growing more narrow by the day.

And yeah, big oil is making its biggest profits during a time when consumers are forking out piles of dough just to run their automobiles and heat their homes. What's wrong with this picture?

Yet? We still have "average Americans" who, while suffering at the hands of this administration, continue to support its excesses and criminality. Why? Because Bush wears a cowboy hat and talks like a down-home guy? I really can't figure that one out.

Redruby:

Class and corporate elites always subvert democracy for their own exclusive ends and as fearful, servile middle layers, who feel they have to defend class despotism, for capitalism, in order to keep their jobs, and their ""bourgeois", corrupt positions, vis a vis their corrupt ideology, and their deformed position to the oligarchy.

Unless we start realizing these fundamental relations, we will keep playing into their rules and into our own powerlessnes. Time for a liberating social ideology, and parties that represent the middle and lower working classes, that make their goal both democracy and socialism, as their goal.

Don't feel hopeless, look at the source of our powerlessness, and then work towards alternatives that give us the social power, social force, to displace class forces both within the class regime, and between the class state. The strategy should be to set up a social middle class, unified forces between the working and middle layers, that pushes out the class forces with a social mechanism, and social agency, and then do the same on the international stage, to end class history once and for all. Global corporate fascism is on the ropes, the Latin American states are fighting back, and the European Union needs to reconstruct its union towards an alliance with it, to slowly push out the CIA infested fascist, corporate hierarchies, for real social peace and harmony that rescues Mother Nature itself, just ast the Enlightenment and Post Enlightenment based their inclusive principles, on Reason and Nature, i.e. social balance.

Yes, class marginalizes, corrupts everything it touches, because its class mechanism, is already in place, and is playing the offense gave, while without our social mechanism in place , reproducing inclusive democratic practices, instead, must fight every issue as a new issue, new battle, when we could be in the driver's seat with some basic fundamental relations understood.

I feel like I have been working for third parties all my life beginning with the "Peace and Freedom Party" when I gathered signatures to get a third party candidate on the ballot; I've organized tenants and teachers and students and coops and worker collectives. I voted Nader after refusing to vote for awhile. It is all corrupt. And when all is said and done, I really wonder what it really takes. Seriously. I am not without conviction or fight but I just lose sight of a real plan for change. I thought a new society could be created with economic democracy, community control and worker ownership and free schools but everything gets coopted. I'm an eternal optimist, I keep on chugging and hoping and working but somehow the news today hit me hard...the double whammy of realizing the billions in tax breaks that Bush has given to big oil, his dismissal of the energy bill to help poor folks pay to heat their house because it called for getting some of that tax cut back and the Iowa Register keeping Kucinich out of the debate. Kind of like the straw that broke the camel's back.

I'm an eternal optimist, I keep on chugging and hoping and working but somehow the news today hit me hard...the double whammy of realizing the billions in tax breaks that Bush has given to big oil, his dismissal of the energy bill to help poor folks pay to heat their house because it called for getting some of that tax cut back and the Iowa Register keeping Kucinich out of the debate. Kind of like the straw that broke the camel's back.

I can understand why you feel that way, redruby. You've put in years of valiant effort. Despite your commitment, a few lazy bums with pocketfuls of money only have to raise their hands, like millionaires at an auction and, when it's all over, they've made off with the spoils. It's a damned shame. No. It's a damned tragedy.

I just sent them an email too. Here's what I wrote

To whom it may concern:

Since the Iowa caucuses are generally regarded as one of the first major litmus tests of the presidential election, I am very disappointed to hear of Kucinich and Gravel being excluded from the debates. Your position in the election is to provide a testing ground for campaigns and ideologies. By excluding some candidates from this process, you are effectively taking away the possibility of an informed choice from the American people.

This is a sorely disappointing decision.

Very nice, Leah!

See the above arguments, and that is why you hate politics. If politics were based on social power, democratic will of the middle and lower working classes, you would not hate politics.

You can also let the Democratic National Committee have a piece of your mind.

I just let them know that I thought it was wrong to have excluded Dennis.

Email the DNC at: http://www.democrats.org/page/s/contact

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Carolyn Washburn,

It has come to my attention that it was your decision to exclude Dennis Kucinich from the upcoming Iowa debate. I'm emailing you to ask you to reconsider. I recognize that his is not the best-funded campaign, nor is it the best publicized. However, the viewpoints he expresses are unique among the candidates and a discussion of their merits must take place for our public discourse to maintain any relevance at all. If you prevent him from participating in the debate then it is my humble opinion that you are doing a grave disservice to this country during a very critical point in its history.

Please change your mind on this issue.

Respectfully,
Mykola Bilokonsky
http://darkside.newsvine.com

Mailed.

Mykola

Pass the contact info around the Web.

-- GP

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You're much more diplomatic than I am, Mykola! But then again, you always have been. I'm afraid I let my anger get in the way of diplomacy. Aw phooey.

Dear Ms. Washburn:

I am horrified and dismayed by your decision to exclude Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel from the Iowa debates.

It is glaringly apparent that democracy and its principles don't merit your respect. Kucinich and Gravel are the only candidates who represent the people. The fact that the mainstream media and people such as yourself choose to ignore these men--and not only ignore them but deprive them of a forum where their views can be shared with Americans--only serves to expose your unapologetic and abject corporate allegiances.

The last time I checked, we still considered ourselves a country "of the people, by the people and for the people." One has to wonder if those individuals who choose to overlook Lincoln's definition (and I include you among them) will ultimately succeed in overturning his promise that a government, so defined, "shall not perish from the earth."

Furthermore, you've left an indelible stain on the integrity of your home state.

If nothing else, you should certainly be commended for accomplishing so much (read: wreaking so much damage) in such little time. Kudos!

Diplomacy against blind class forces, servile intstiutionalized elites, who hang up on individuals, but who perk up with social power of the Newsvine, reveals that this is no time to be be diplomatic, but time to let your feelings of powerlessness be expressed, it is only healthy. Sterility, in times of crisis leads to disaster. We need both passion and strategy to win the war against our elties.

SOrry i dont buy it.. he doesnt get media coverage just like ron paul because he doesnt accept corporate contributions.
Youc ant deny that ron paul movement isnt big.. and yet he is still marginalized every chance they get.
We get awesome newstories about clinton feeling targeted as a woman, or how edwards thinks clinton using the gender card for being targeted for being a woman. we get tons of free fluffy news casts that pretty much ammount to commericals for or against the candidates, but nothing on kucinich and not very much on ron paul.. sorry i dont buy it.
These guys get plenty of media attention on the new media... where things apear a lot more fair...
but for some reason is 100% left out of the corporate media.. which in the past they used to atleast include the nuts on the polls.. la rouche and such.
Nah when their is a huge differnce between new media and old media, you know that old media is up to their old corporate tricks.

This is one single debate and it is unlikely that Kucinich could have done anything during it to convince at least 15% of caucus-goers to vote for his delegates, much less the voters on February 5th.

Well this actually might be true if you go back to all the other debates and calculate how much time he got compared to all the other candidates...

Making excuses for our own powerlessnes is a form of servility to class power, not democracy.

Eric? I think you're responding to the comment that Eric A. cited, NOT Eric (A's) observation which is, in fact, right on target. Eric is pointing out that the time the MSM gave to Kucinich during the debates was deliberately limited--hence his message to the American people has been short changed. Unfair!

Of course, since money rules in this country and democracy has now been reduced to a buzzword, we can hardly expect fair treatment. Particularly where the wishes, wants and demands of the people are concerned. Who said it? Oh. Indefinido. Comment #3:

What a disgraceful sham. The game is rigged, folks. Both parties are a joke. Democrats try to keep Kucinich out of the lime light; the Republicans campaign against Ron Paul. "By the people" may no longer apply anymore, for now.

Yeah. I like that. There's a note of optimism is his/her qualifier "for now." Not sure I share that hope. But it's better to believe in a just future than succumb to complete despair. Something many of us have been teetering on the brink of.

Bush invented the signing statement?

Bush invented the signing statement?

Quite obviously not, but he's used the procedure far more than any previous president. Did he invent waterboarding?

What has waterboarding have to do with signing statements?

faust-132915

Quite obviously not, but he's used the procedure far more than any previous president.

Wrong

Clinton issued 381, Bush so far 152

Did you read the part in your own link where it said Clinton's statements raised 70 constitutional or legal objections in those statements, whereas Bush has thus far raised over 1000? Or, as the Boston Globe states:

declaring that he has the power to set aside the laws when they conflict with his legal interpretation of the Constitution.

Yes.

I guess it just wasn't relevant to the effect you wanted. High drama high bias, high spin?
Good for you. at least your honest, except for the 'independent' bit, that's wearing thin, in fact you are are as independent as a well trained rightwing disinformant.

What has waterboarding got to do with signing statements?

Like you really want to know or don't already.
How you can conceive we are as stupid as to believe you are as stupid as you pretend to be.

Good luck with that little lamb.

Business as usual

Your man, Mr independant, is quite literally, a dictator, what he believes and what he asserts is law, That's the law.

any more innocent questions from the overinformed?

Independent Voter

You made my point for me.

The significant rise in the proportion of constitutional
objections made by President Bush is compounded by the fact that these statements
are typified by multiple objections, resulting in more than 1,000 challenges to distinct
provisions of law. The number and scope of such assertions in the George W. Bush
Administration has given rise to extensive debate over the issuance of signing
statements, with the American Bar Association (ABA) recently publishing a report
declaring that these instruments are “contrary to the rule of law and our constitutional
separation of powers” when they “claim the authority or state the intention to
disregard or decline to enforce all or part of a law ... or to interpret such a law in a
manner inconsistent with the clear intent of Congress.”

I see you use the same naming conventions as the Bush administration when choosing your online name. Independent Voter; Patriot Act; No Child Left Behind; Dept. of Homeland Security;. Operation Iraqi Freedom; War On Terror.

Neocon Tool

Yes, larger parameters creates more open ideologies. It is all about history and ideology. This one issue of Corproate media manipulation, is only a sympton of the rot of all class relations.

IndependentVoter:

I totally agree with your premise that the democrats participate with the Republican class hacks in all these same policiies. However, this pointless argument, about who is more or less corrupt, does not get to the heart of this generic class corruption. You are on one side, and I am opposed to both class parties, class ideologies, class policies, which you defend.

Corrupt is corrupt is corrupt. They use partisan politics to keep us fighting amongst ourselves and prevent us from turning against them. Damn it all that our public is so stupid to allow it to be so effective.

It's time for a revolution.

Right on, brother dead

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established, should not be changed for light and transient causes; and, accordingly, all experience [has] shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce [the people] under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security." --Thomas Jefferson: Declaration of Independence, 1776. ME 1:29, Papers 1:429

Are we there yet?

I think we've been there for awhile. Now, how to proceed, as jefferson says, to throw off such government?

We need another Tea Party, and quick.

More like a Doobie Party...

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Close..there might more water in the ship that can be pumped out or baled.