Red Light Cameras: Legitimate Law Enforcement Tools Or Scams To Make Money?

another study said you could make more money by increasing it as well,people get used to the buffer and think they have enough time. something like a half a second increased tickets by 50%

but they are coming everywhere, how can a town next to another town watch them rake in the cash. especially times like these.

i bet if the law changed and you could only take away license points and not charge a fine, these would not go up. they cost too much. And since they expect to recover those expenses it pretty much belies what their purpose is.

another study said you could make more money by increasing it as well,people get used to the buffer and think they have enough time. something like a half a second increased tickets by 50%

This i can see. There are obvious randomness in the light changes. You could be driving on the same block, with the same amount of traffic, and the three lights you hit will be significantly different.

People quit guessing it after a while and it just causes accidents as people slam on breaks to stop.

Scott, there's some leeway allowed in what the length of a yellow signal light should be. Hard boundaries are set at between 3 and 6 seconds, by law, as contained in the Federal Highway Administration's Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, Section 4.D.10. My advice, if you think the city may be shortening the yellow signal length in an effort to increase citations, is to time yellow signals on non-camera streets which have the same number of lanes and same speed limit, and then make a comparison. If all the non-camera lights you time come in at, say, 5 seconds, but the camera light comes in at 3 seconds, it would be suggestive, wouldn't it?

And, of course, if the light comes in under 3 seconds, then the city is violating federal rules.

If safety were the real concern, it would be better to fit these intersections with prominent timer displays that show the remaining number of seconds before a change of signal condition. They're less expensive, and they work. But they don't generate cash, so it's doubtful that municipalities have a strong incentive to install them.

Thanks for all the excellent ideas. No problem, and I look forward to reading about what you find out.

Here is the link with the recommended times by Institute of Traffic Engineers (ITE). There is a complex formula that includes the approach speed of the traffice (speed limit), reaction time of an "average" driver and the width of the intersection being crossed. At 30 mph crossing 30 foot wide intersection the yellow light should be 3.6 seconds OR LONGER.

THIS is a link to a story about 6 cities that were caught intentionally shortening yellow light durations in order to get more violations.

Many of the contracts the cities have specifically prevent them from lenghtening the yellow light duration at camera locations.

I was surprised about the amount of the traffic camera fine of $90. I have two friends that have been "caught". One was finded by the City of Long Beach in the amount of $388. The City of Highland charged the other $484.

So Germany monitors traffic and changes the speed limit accordingly?

Tough to explain. Easier to just check it out for yourself...

'The Complex World of Driving in Germany' (Newsvine article with pictures)

Scott,

Yes, exactly. With modern IT, it is an easy thing to do, and the result is that speed limits are "logical"... and therefore people respect them. Safety is the obvious winner.

Of course, the revenue stream is adversely affected...

I don't mind if you mention your article on mine, but would you be kind enough to reciprocate by plugging this article on your article?

I think that is a courteous thing to do, I do the same thing if I post a link in someone else's column.

Scott,

Sorry, but I have no idea whether the German traffic control system has ever been hacked.

That's a great point. If there were cops on the corners where there are cameras crime would be dropping drastically. What you find instead is cities attempting to replace cops with tech.

Scott,

Worse yet, the city has totally distanced itself from any criticism of the system by contracting out to private industry in what amounts to law enforcement profiteering

I think that is something that needs to be mentioned more. The camera company, at least the ones I've read about, get 1/2 the money. You might want to look into how the money is being divvyed up.

Scott,

If you do find out, please be sure to post it. I'm curious to know.

This procedure tickets the car, not the driver. What if a car is used by various family members or if the car is loaned to a friend. Only the car owner is ticketed.

AND you don't get the ticket for at least a week, my case it took two.

By the time it arrives in the mail, you might not even remember that you weren't the one driving your vehicle. Thus, most people just go ahead and pay the ticket.

Several years back my license plate was stolen off my truck while it was parked in my driveway. I reported it to the county police. Almost a year later a car was impounded in Henry Co. Va. (about 3 miles from here) and they sent me a letter that said they had impounded my car. My point obviously, is what if your tag is stolen and on an unlicensed vehicle?

My wife and I were t-boned by a drunk pulling out of a bar, who then fled the scene. We got the license plate number, as did an eyewitness who followed him until he got on the freeway. when we arrived in court, we were told by the prosecutor that he wouldn't prosecute the guy solely on the basis of the license plate identification, even though the guy already admitted to having crashed into us.

Makes you wonder whether the State can ever make a case, based solely on the license plate.

That sounds like an ideal model for the usage. There should be some sort of criteria other than revenue generator.

Here is more than you might want to know about yellow lights, reaction time, braking distance, etc.

The Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices

I recommend using the html format, the pdf takes a while.

Part 4 is the section on yellow light duration.

And a timely article on the subject.

That 1 sec/10mph thing is the guideline in NC, (I think)

The minimum recommended yellow light duration for the speed limit at 30 MPH and crossing a 30 foot wide intersection (the usual 4 lanes with no median) is 3.6 seconds. Faster speeds or wider intersections require longer times.

The "Rule of Thumb" in NC is guaranteed to have people running the red. The MINIMUM time for a yellow is 3.6 seconds - 20% MORE than the 1 sec/10 MPH for a 30 MPH intersection.

You're getting close to the part where they decide the targeted market, for maximum revenue, of course. Keep digging...

Scott Isaacs,

No Scott, actually along the lines of the 6th, and before anyone goes crazy at me, I am not the only one that thinks this way. When they started putting the stupid things in, this was my first thought, but municipal things are a bit different than state and fed.

With this in mind...

Recently in the Phoenix Arizona area, there are at least two Judges that have had problems with the photo ticketing scheme.

One Judge has a problem with the system because the tickets issued by the camera system has a different fee schedule than the tickets issued by human police.

Another Judge has a problem based on the 6th. Most specifically:

to be confronted by the witness against him;

These judges are throwing out hundreds if not thousands of cases based on their beliefs.

I think that most of Amendment 6 has merit in this case. I would also use the 4th, but not as the main focus.

Have fun

John

Hadn't thought of it that way sarge but you have a point.