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PrintThe Forgotten Revolutionaries Who Shunned Terrorism
News Type: Event — Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:05 AM EDT
From the trailer for the new documentary movie, The Singing Revolution.
Apologizing for terrorism is completely indefensible. Have people forgotten MLK and Gandhi's teachings? Have people forgotten the Velvet and Singing Revolutions in Eastern Europe against the Soviet/Russian Empire?
The Soviets murdered millions, deported millions to Siberia, bugged telephones, banned books, outlawed native languages, encouraged Russians to emigrate to occupied nations to dilute the indigenous cultures, assassinated and jailed dissidents -- it was the Orwellian horror come true.
But, for example, the Balts (Lithuanians, Latvians, and Estonians) never turned to terrorism during 50 years of brutal occupation. They organized secret meetings, passed banned books around, held clandestine cultural festivals -- held tenaciously onto their culture.
In their ultimate act of rejection of Soviet oppression, thousands of people held hands forming a chain across all three Baltic nations. Now that's beauty. That's what MLK and Gandhi taught.
Estonia (1.3 million people), Latvia (2.3 million people), and Lithuania (3.6 million), all three with few natural resources, never had a chance of facing off militarily against the might of Russia (141 million) with virtually unlimited natural resources.
The Balts didn't blow up cafes full of civilians. Same goes for African-Americans led by MLK against the U.S. status quo of the time, or Gandhi against the British Empire, or now the infinitesimally small Tibet against 1.3 billion Chinese.
Turning to terrorism takes a twisted, immoral, despicable consciousness -- an unwillingness to accept personal responsibility, and an abrogation of common decency.
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very cool, thanks for promoting alternatives to political violence.
Glad to, and thanks for your interest. MLK and Gandhi and Vatslav Havel are the role models we should be turning to.
Or we can keep banging our heads against the wall asking, "How many wars for how more centuries?" Another Iraq? Another Vietnam? Another world war?
Thedoctori:
Great article, really well put.
I'm flat out tired of hearing about how "desperate" terrorists are. What are foreign al-Qaeda terrorists who come to Iraq "desperate" about? Nothing. They're driven by a perverse ideology to kill "infidels," i.e. Shiites or Americans or anyone else that believes in democracy.
Thats exactly it. great article. Thank you
Thanks for stopping in at my column.
My pleasure. Thank you.
Additionally, don't forget "mothers of the disappeared", who were instrumental in exposing those responsible for Argentina's "dirty war".
I couldn't agree more Doctori. You're absolutely right.
Plus I think that where terrorism has been used, for example by the ANC,or by the zionists in 1948, or by the IRA, these tactics have either delayed the political aims of the organisation or poisoned future peace. It does indeed happen because of hatred and provocation and frustration but it's never a good idea, because it creates more of exactly what it reacts to. And as Zimbabwe and other places have shown, it brings up power hungry thugs to positions of political power.
The name of the act, "terrorism," is appropriate in betraying its inherent negativity. Fear is useful in the natural world as a form of self-protection, but not as as end in itself. People could learn a lot from nature. St. Francis knew this.
And men like MLK and Buddha and Vatslav Havel and Lech Walesa showed millions how to overcome fear and reach great goals peacefully.
Good column. While it is a mistake to view the variegated manifestations of Islamic extremism monochromatically, I tend to view the retrograde Salafism of bin Laden and cohort and the tactics they espouse more along the lines of the late 19th century European examples of anarcho-terrorism as exemplified by the likes of Mikhail Bakunin and Sergei Nechaev in that the primary goal is first to break down the ruling orders in target countries by means of violence.
Yes, precursors (progenitors of) to Lenin and Stalin's terrorist tactics were people like Errico Malatesta, Gavrilo Princip, and Danilo Ilić.
Sadly, sometimes terrorism does work: Gavrilo Princip's action did lead to a "Greater Serbia": a Serbian-dominated Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes.
Yes, liberation from oppression/occupation/exploitation can be achieved by a variety of methods. Terror, I firmly believe, is an act of desperation that may garner instant news coverage and response but is ultimately counterproductive. Armed resistance should be carefully applied, and only to prevent harm to the oppressed.
Too easy to become violent; takes discipline for passive resistance.
I wonder how you feel about the weather underground.
many call them terrorists, I call them rebels.. why?? because they made sure no one died in their bombings and they only attacked government institutions.
This is not like al queda, hamas, etc.
also how do you feel about the us funding terrorist organisations, like the mek, the kudish rebels, contras and many many others. heck we have funded right wing terror groups in honduras and columbia and venezuela.
JoulesBeef:
Partisans always call partisans on the other side, "terrorists," so I don't want to get into a debate as to who is and who isn't a terrorist. That being said, I'm in agreement with you on the groups you mentioned.
We (the U.S.) should not have, nor should we ever be, funding terrorist groups like the MEK (Iran), or the PKK (Kurds), or d’Aubuisson's ARENA (El Salvador), or the AUC (Columbia), etc. I oppose all forms of terrorism.
Keep in mind though, that the Soviets and others (e.g., now Islamist charities) have funded equally virulent extremist groups like El Salvador's FMLN, Columbia's FARC, and Iraq's Ansar al-Sunnah.
thedoctori, Islamic terror is faith-based and it is fundamentalist. As such there can be no compromise.
back:
I agree, but I'm just trying to say that all people can choose -- passive resistance or at least to militarily within the rules of engagement.
The information about MLK and Gandhi and Vatslav Havel and Lech Walesa is out there, like on the Internet. Interestingly, many Islamists use the Internet to coordinate, spread their message, etc. They could seek alternatives. They could think about whether terrorism is long-term counter-productive.
They could... Will they?
Any human endeavor is based on faith, otherwise there would not be civilization. I cannot account for the fall from Grace among certain Islamic movements, other than a lack of thorough analysis and deliberated decision. Had Black September not happened, how far would Middle Eastern politics be along?
If Black September hadn't happened, Arafat would've taken over Jordan, and would've immediately started attacking Israel. It would have been another disaster for the Palestinians, and for neighboring Arab regimes, which is why Jordan fought so hard to expel the Palestinians. The proof in the pudding was the PLO's subsequent destabilization and destruction of Lebanon.
Remember Arafat's character: corrupt and completely untrustworthy.
Some have honed their awful success in interpreting "jihad" as a violent, totalitarian struggle rather than one capable of embracing the modern world, and they cannot turn aside. The tiny Gulf emirates almost alone seem to realize facts. Lebanon could be lost if Hezbullah has its way.
Islamism is a very contradictory dogma. As Daniel Pipes explains:
Given their dogma, that would tend to twist their thinking to an even greater degree, and inflame their misplaced rage.
Yeah, you could say that: Beslan, 911, Madrid 311, the London bombing, the Bali bombing, Theo Van Gogh getting his throat slit in downtown Amsterdam, 2 Russian airlines blown up, 30,000 - 50,0000 Sunnis and Shiites killing each other in Iraq, the Samarra bombing, the Amman bombing, Algeria's civil war, Hezbollah's missile war against Israel, etc., etc.
Again, my point that had the Palestinian resistance been rooted in Ghandian strategy, what would the Middle East be like today?
"had the Palestinian resistance been rooted in Ghandian strategy," Israelis and Palestinians would've been living in peace to this day. (Note that many Palestinians living in Israel already do live in peace with Jews.)
If Palestinians turned to peaceful means for achieving their goals, they would've appealed to a much deeper level of the Israeli psyche -- to what Martin Luther King, Jr., called the Jewish "religious and cultural commitment to justice."1
1 Carson, Clayborne, editor. The Autobiography of Martin Luther King, Jr., Warner Books, New York, NY, 1998, page 310.
There's far more to his corruption than even your links show, I'm sure you know. But -- that information has been quashed.
Free America refuses to cite anything because as he said earlier, all of his "evidence" is found "inbetween the lines"....Dude in between the lines is nothing. You have no evidence. All you are here doing is spewing which we really don't need.
Doctori I love this article its well written, well thought out and just all around lovely. I admire your patience in responding to racist, hateful spew.
amber do not read16.1 sorry anti-semites make me mad
That sounds like an acid trip gone bad. Paranoia is not healthy. Poor Free America. :-(
Thanks Amber. It's hard to believe that in 2008 people still think the "Protocols" as some kind of history book... Or maybe they're not as naive as I think, and they want to believe such hate, or are trying to convince others to hate...
I asked "Free America" to post references/citations several times, but as you noticed, I've gotten the "it's just obvious" or "read between the lines," in other words, he's go nothin'...
The Doctori
I have bad news
looking for evidence on the jewish ants(lol) I hate to say it but I found
free America and myself do in fact share many sources and references
I will list them...Nefarious, unreliable, anonymous, mysterious and not with a firm grip on reality.
the very same sources I myself use in the Evil Jewish ant story
what can I say I am sorry
NMA OHHHHH he's citing a band as his proof ... no wonder we're all confused.
"Free America:"
You posted eight (8) completely off-topic comments within the span of about 20 minutes. As I understand the Code of Honor (and "recommended guidelines to make you a better Viner"), you may not post off-topic comments and you may not spam a seed.
I already warned you once about this. I also advised you read the Code of Honor.
Your comments:
#20 - Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:49 PM EDT
#21 - Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:59 PM EDT
#22 - Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:04 PM EDT
#23 - Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:08 PM EDT
#25 - Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:10 PM EDT
#26 - Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:11 PM EDT
#27 - Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:12 PM EDT
#28 - Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:13 PM EDT
have been deleted as per Code of Honor rule "4. d. Comments that are grossly off-topic may be deleted."
Thank you that was getting slightly silly.
one of the posts was aginst the Coh thank you did you read it first it was in french but not spelled right
"Free America"
Your comment
#32 - Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:30 PM EDT
has been deleted as per Code of Honor rule "4. d. Comments that are grossly off-topic may be deleted."
No, only your comments are now being deleted. I deleted 1 (one) of kpr37's and I doubt he'll mind.
"Free America"
Your comment
#34 - Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:34 PM EDT
has been deleted as per Code of Honor rule "4. d. Comments that are grossly off-topic may be deleted."
This is an article about non violent protesters...if you want an article and discussion about Zaire, Frank Rhodes, the new whatever army etc...go write one, quit spamming this seed hun.
Wow Amber that's i think 6 things now we agree on.
I've seen this situation come up but this is the first time I've seen it in this context so that's educational.
This is a really good and hopeful and constructive topic, that happens to be posted by an ardent supporter of Israel. The doc and i have argued from time to time, we see stuff differently because we're different people. We do agree on some things however and this topic is certainly one of those things.
I'm interested in this topic, I'd like to learn more about peoples views on this topic. I revisit this column when my tracker tells me there is something new here.
I'm still here but because of 'Free America's off topic" just because i say so it's the same thing and on topic outbursts, one line posts, distracting histronic ramblings, I had thought of taking it off my tracker.
Until I realised that this is a tactic, used on both sides of the Israeli discussions by minorities intent on disrupting constructive conversation.
So on principle I'm not going to detrack and instead click 'ignore' for 'free america' knowing I will not miss out on anything that is in fact ontopic.
I suggest others who wish to, simply do the same
oops sorry amber, I just checked. I confused you with Amber-385527, we disagreed about everything and had a long long boring [well I kinda amused myself] battle a couple of nights back and finally i was able to turn it around and we agreed on one then two then three simple things and got up to 5 before she had to turn in. [one of the things was that she was a woman, ;]
anyway, i recognise you now, you're a different amber. I've never counted the things that we agree on. let's start this at one.
off topic sorry.
winsomecowboy:
I'm glad you stopped in. I've followed some of your comments and I think you and I often agree more than not.
Thanks.
;-)
No. No its not....not at all, if you can't see that then your mind is twisted.
"Free America"
You're acting like a child. Please refrain from spamming this article anymore.
I've reported your behavior to Newsvine staff.
Your comment:
#37 - Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:44 PM EDT
has been deleted as per Code of Honor rule "4. d. Comments that are grossly off-topic may be deleted."
"Free America"
Your comments:
#36.1 - Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:52 PM EDT
#40 - Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:53 PM EDT
#41 - Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:57 PM EDT
have been deleted as per Code of Honor rule "4. d. Comments that are grossly off-topic may be deleted." Who was in the British Mandate's forces has nothing to do with this seed (nor do the Protocols of the Elders of Zion for that matter).
has nothing to do with this seed. Please stop spamming.
I find it amazing that the people that are doing the most killing worldwide, behind peoples back are the ones to site the real Isrealites struggle for peace.
Do any of the sane commentators here have any idea what "Ms. Daisy" is really trying to say -- with all the misspellings and grammar mistakes?
Great article Doctor, these are values that we all need to get behind, whatever side of the political spectrum you sit on.
Thanks. I would hope peacefully achieving goals is something everyone can share in common. Remember CSNY's Teach Your Children.
This is a fantastic article with reminders that are painful, but so necessary to remember. I have a friend who lived through Stalin. She is Ukrainian and her family was forced to leave. She had five children and her husband with her. It was bitterly cold, as anyone who has visited that region knows. Stalin's thugs pulled one of the blankets from her baby, saying that two blankets were too many. He threw the blanket into the snow. Subsequently, the baby froze to death. This is just a tiny example of what has been and what is. Forgetting is not an option.
Another bulldozer incident in Israel. Heartbreaking and frustrating.
My uncle answered a knock at the door under Stalin. Two guys through a burlap bag over him and he ended up in Siberia eating fish heads for 14 years. To this day, he has no idea why he was "exiled."
A day like this is coming for us, here, on our soil, if we don't WAKE UP!
yes I am afraid it may be
terror must be killed in place or transformed by it's encounter with death
America will never be the same after sep 11
it must get stronger in it's emancipationist legacy
freedom has it's own power
Unfortunately, terrorism works and has many running scared. But the U.S. tends to surprise those who expect us to always react the same way. As the old saying goes, "Pearl Harbor awoke a sleeping giant."
YES but sep 11 has not yet
if America is hit again say 10,000 dead NY or was
the killing will make ww#2 look like a walk in the park
how do you win a war with out killing so many of the enemy that they stop
Germany
Japan
we killed a @!$%# load of people but what else could you do
deal with the out come
do not let your losses oppress you till afterwards
I believed this quote from Herman Melville's poem, The Martyr after 9/11. I think we have lost it now as we have lost the lesson from Pearl Harbor. Are we destined to repeat these lessons throughout eternity? Teach your children indeed -- please teach them.
Here's a great read regarding our current conundrum (including the Melville analogy):
the view of the mid east is in other words fu-ked
Most people want to believe whatever makes them feel good and secure, no matter what the consequences.
I see that A LOT on newsvine America is evil Islam peace full
you are a nut
I say that is beside the point
and if they took their head out of their ASS they will see that also
thedoctori:
Much of what you say is absolutely correct.
The western media is so concerned about being anti-muslim, or anti-well anything (except Israel, of course) that what we see/hear from it is just pap.
It is difficult to read the newspapers and other "media" which the Arab street reads as almost none of it is translated. But, when someone does bother to actually translate it, it is scary as hell.
Although I agree with your position that for those who currently are repressed non violent methods are most likely the best way to go, we must remember that the terrorists are NOT fighting for a "repressed" people, a "repressed" or "oppressed" country.
They are fighting to gain their own societal/cultural goals. So many people in this world just do not understand this, but it is true.
And, finally, it does seem to me that if there are arab moderates then we need to extend to them all assistance we can to be sure they remain safe and have a method of getting their beliefs out.
Yes, we should be supporting the moderates instead of trying to bribe the extremists into changing their stripes into spots (it won't happen). Since we know there are moderate Arabs/Muslims, it's really frustrating to see the State Dept and Western counterparts continually trying to "reason" with extremists like Hamas.
Also, here's a great discussion of the fallacy of the poverty-causes-terror argument by Daniel Pipes: "The Causes of Terrorism: It's Not about Money"
My understanding is Free American is actually posting things that were concocted by the Soviet Secret Police that coincided with the First Zionist convention in Geneva. This already historically proven bunk is titled Protocals of the Elders of Zion, and it is pure propaganda anti-Jewish in nature.
The premise is a Jewish plot to take over the world, similar to many fascist states now running countries on this planet. Lets look at a few and see if Jews would be at the center of these movements. Iran, a combination of a theocracy, business community, and military control - Jewish plot, not unless Ahmadinejad is secretly Jewish. Next, Syria again a combination of a fascist ruling party, who have wiped out a village of Sunnis to protect their power, run the industrial complex, which is in turn is running the economy. So, again, unless Assad is a closet Jew!
There are 13 million Jews on this planet of 6.5 billion people, of which 185 million are Muslims. Someone would have to be absolutely paranoid of Jews, be jealous of the 'chosen people' banter, or extremely gullible, or a borderline sociopath to think that Jews want to take over the planet. How else could you explain it. Are there truly these kinds of people walking around, sure, are the buying this old line, absolutely, and are they wrong, absolutely again.
Free America insults the United States with these statements. Neither Free nor American is what these kinds of accusations are about. Free doesn't mean you can post lies and insults, American does want to be part of these racial slurs. It is not part of our Constitution to print racially inflammatory bigotry.
The "Protocols" goes back even farther, and there are slightly different accounts of their origins:
See here, too:
I wasn't sure of the dates of the first Zionist Congress, but now that I think about it, I believe your right. The Congress was earlier than I stated above. The Protocols could just as easily have been applied to Catholics, England (which hooked tens of thousands Chinese on opium for the enormous profits, and control of the population.
It could also be applied to the Rockefellers, no Jews, who stole oil rights from people all across the US, made distillation deals with Hitler for motor oils and fuels, as well as the deals made with Saudi Arabia as well as the mergers over the years which have resulted in today's rediculously high prices, gas guzzling vehicles, and pollution.
The list of real conspiracies are unlimited, yet these jokers think its Jews that want to RULE THE WORLD! I am a Jew, I don't want to rule anything. You can quote me on that.
WC
You're too funny, WC. But how can you deny what's in your KZionist nature -- you know, Jews driving cars can slow down faster than anyone; they stop on a dime...
/I'm joking (for those readers w/o a sense of humor)
;-)
good after afternoon doctory
see what the evil Easter bunny is up to with the ants
the jews can't have all the fun ?
on a kpr news
exclusive breaking news story.
it is an out rage ?
The Easter Bunny!!!!!
What... is... the... world... coming... to?
pure and pious Islamic ants
in little suicide vests
I had that up yesterday but the Jewish ants took it down I am not joking (LOL)
the Easter bunny is gone from the main story that is why I am putting things in the comments
I had 200 more words of nonsense that is gone f-ing ants