Flight delay and cancellation compensation, KLM/A...

[Centipede100]

I am starting this thread for those claiming flight delay or cancellation compensation from KLM/AF.

These 2 airlines operate jointly and customer service is based in a single office in the UK so responses for one poster are likely to be relevant for the other airline in the partnership.

Any posts regarding any other airline in this thread will be ignored (at least by me).

[Centipede100]

FAQs

All blue words are links to relevant posts.

WARNING
Please read these FAQ's and guidance, together with the MSE article in order to discover useful information before you ask a question!

What to do next after reading the FAQ's.

Airline bust = no claim

The claim is against the airline, not the travel agent, not the package holiday company.

Anything from 17th Feb 2005 -you can claim but if the airline says no - you can't take them to court.... but check out the corrections to the (inaccurate) MSE article:

MSE article corrected

Flight Stats Check your delay length time (you may have to register)

'Which!' draft letter to set the ball rolling Start off your claim
Alternatively:

CAA Template letter Standard claim letter to initiate a claim

After denial of your claim, issue 14 days notice of Court Action:

Centipede100 Template letter This is the 'Notice Before Action' letter (NBA or LBA)

Explanation of the legal process of NBA, 14 days notice before court claim.

Small claims time limitIts 6 years in the UK
European court press release on time limits to claim It's the time limit in each member state, which in the UK is 6 years.

Package holiday flights ARE covered.

Regulation261\2004
CAA Denied boarding
Right to Care
CAA contact details

Technical fault with plane is NOT "extra ordinary circumstances" so you CAN claim
Extraordinary circumstances + Extra ordinary Circumstances
Technical issues
More Technical issues with background
EC's explained yet again

Thomas Cook address, phone number, and email address
Thomas cook incident Oct 26 2012

Thomson address
Emirates Airlines address

KLM Claim form
Ryanair address
Ryanair Irish appeal explained
How to combat Ryanair using the English Court System
BA Address
BA complaint web-site

BA forum explaining the regulation in plain english *ESSENTIAL READING*

Jet airways address

Compensation per person + Monarch email
Monarch Claim form

European small claims court forms How to issue a court claim against a foreign airline with no UK address

Airline claims 2 years maximum to claim The UK time limit is 6 years, - that's the Law

Judgement on 22nd NOV confirms the limit is whatever applies in the Country - UK is 6 years

Wallentin-Hermann judgement The concept of extraordinary circumstances explained in legal terms

Original Sturgeon judgment giving rise to delay compensation:

Legal challenge to Sturgeon judgment - The ECJ Grand Chamber ruling on the 23 October 2012

Folkerts v Air France case C-11/11 Missed connection due to delay on first flight still qualifies for compensation if arrival is later than 3 hours

MCOL : Link to the Court Forms

[cjkeeko]

We were flying from Dubai to Glasgow with a connection in Amsterdam. The flights were booked directly with KLM and both flights were on the one boarding card. We experienced a one hour delay in getting to Amsterdam due to a technical fault and this resulted in us missing our connecting flight. KLM customer service at Amsterdam was very poor, we were put on an alternative flight and arrived in Glasgow over six hours late. I sent the compensation template letter to KLM last week and received a reply to say that we were ineligible for compensation as our actual flight delay was only an hour. I have written back to say that I believe they are misinterpreting the legislation as it is the delay arriving at your final destination that counts. I am awaiting a response but just wanted to check that I am right in my understanding that when connecting flights are booked with the carrier and on the one boarding card it is the arrival at final destination that counts.

[Centipede100]

Originally Posted by cjkeeko

We were flying from Dubai to Glasgow with a connection in Amsterdam. The flights were booked directly with KLM and both flights were on the one boarding card. We experienced a one hour delay in getting to Amsterdam due to a technical fault and this resulted in us missing our connecting flight. KLM customer service at Amsterdam was very poor, we were put on an alternative flight and arrived in Glasgow over six hours late. I sent the compensation template letter to KLM last week and received a reply to say that we were ineligible for compensation as our actual flight delay was only an hour. I have written back to say that I believe they are misinterpreting the legislation as it is the delay arriving at your final destination that counts. I am awaiting a response but just wanted to check that I am right in my understanding that when connecting flights are booked with the carrier and on the one boarding card it is the arrival at final destination that counts.

I assume that the flight from DXB was also operated by KLM? If that is the case and your flights were bought as a single reservation (1 reservation number) then you are correct in your assumption that what counts is the delay in arriving in your case into Glasgow 6 hours late.

If your flight from DXB to AMS was on Emirates, for example, then you would be ineligible for compensation.

[cjkeeko]

There were both klm and on the one ticket, thank you for your advice. I will let you know the outcome.

[Justwishin]

klm any advice please. Hi I am posting on behalf of my daughter. She booked a flight to Bangkok from Birmingham for 10/12/12. She has had some correspondence from KLM but all they are offering is a goodwill gesture of a total of �41 for two pax.
The 1st leg of the journey was originally delayed due to technical reasons, they eventually took off at approx 12.30pm instead of 9.15am landing at Schipol airport too late to catch the second leg of their flight (booked on the same ticket)They then had a long wait in Schipol for the next flight approx 2hrs 30 mins late , therefore their overall landing at Bangkok was approx 4hrs late .
To add insult to injury they were late landing at Amsterdam on the way back meaning they had missed the connecting flight back to Bham and hanging around Schipol for approx 7hrs !
Any help will be very much appreciated as KLM are only offering �41 as a goodwill gesture, and I feel this is a valid claim for compensation.

Thanks

I need to point out the trip was booked with KLM on one booking ref and checked in on one ticket, although the 2nd leg of the flight was with China Airlines as a star alliance partner.All the docs were from KLM and booking and eticket supplied by KLM.

Thanks

[Centipede100]

Originally Posted by Justwishin

klm any advice please. Hi I am posting on behalf of my daughter. She booked a flight to Bangkok from Birmingham for 10/12/12. She has had some correspondence from KLM but all they are offering is a goodwill gesture of a total of �41 for two pax.
The 1st leg of the journey was originally delayed due to technical reasons, they eventually took off at approx 12.30pm instead of 9.15am landing at Schipol airport too late to catch the second leg of their flight (booked on the same ticket)They then had a long wait in Schipol for the next flight approx 2hrs 30 mins late , therefore their overall landing at Bangkok was approx 4hrs late .
To add insult to injury they were late landing at Amsterdam on the way back meaning they had missed the connecting flight back to Bham and hanging around Schipol for approx 7hrs !
Any help will be very much appreciated as KLM are only offering �41 as a goodwill gesture, and I feel this is a valid claim for compensation.

Thanks

I need to point out the trip was booked with KLM on one booking ref and checked in on one ticket, although the 2nd leg of the flight was with China Airlines as a star alliance partner.All the docs were from KLM and booking and eticket supplied by KLM.

Thanks

Just to clarify, the first leg of your daughter's journey was from BHX to AMS on a KLM flight which was delayed to the extent that she missed the connection onto the China Airlines flight from AMS to BKK. She arrived in BKK more than 4 hours later than originally scheduled.

If my summary is correct, then each passenger on the reservation is entitled to 600 euros compensation. The airline will inevitably claim that the delay is due to technical issues and extraordinary circumstances but the ECJ has ruled in both the Sturgeon and Wallentin-Hermann precedent cases that Technical Issues would not normally be a valid defence under the Regulation.

Your daughter's hand will be further strengthened at the end of February when the ECJ hands down judgment in the Folkerts case. This concerned a passenger who was delayed on their first leg for less than 3 hours, but missed their onward connection and meant that they arrived at their final destination more than 3 hours later than originally scheduled.

As the judges in the Folkerts case have not asked for a Legal Opinion from the Advocate General you can be certain that this is because the case raises no new points of law and that the precedent case law in Sturgeon for this point will be followed in the forthcoming judgment (i.e. delays of more than 3 hours arriving at the passengers' final destination may be compensated).

[falkirk81]

I posted this question a while back in the more general thread, but i`ll report the jist of it here.

In August 2011, I had one of my flights cancelled by KLM. I was due to be flying TPA - ATL - AMS - NCL but the plane from AMS was grounded and never left AMS due to a breakdown. I got a call several hours before I was due to check into Tampa airport that my connecting flight in Atlanta was not going to be there as it was cancelled. The next available flight was the next day due to the last leg between AMS and NCL having no spare seats between now and the next day, so I just had to wait.

No assistance was offered in any form from KLM/Delta over the phone, simply rebooking me the next day was all they would do.

So after the 24 hour delay in getting home, I wrote to KLM for compensation for the costs incurred and loss of two days work (I would have been home in time to work night shift that night after a few hours sleep and then work a dayshift the next day).

I was offered and received �25 cash to cover my hire car cost for 24hours and a �75 voucher for the delay.

I never used the voucher and after reading the posts on here about the amount of compensation I 'should' have received, I rewrote a letter to KLM in December stating that I should legally have been given 600 Euro cash or 800 Euro in vouchers for a delay of 24 hours on a journey of this distance.

After a couple of emails asking for further details and booking references, I finally and much to my surprise got a positive reply!

I am getting a voucher for 800 Euro as they have agreed my claim for compensation.

I write this post so that others may find it benefitial.

[Justwishin]

[QUOTE=Centipede100;58945687]Just to clarify, the first leg of your daughter's journey was from BHX to AMS on a KLM flight which was delayed to the extent that she missed the connection onto the China Airlines flight from AMS to BKK. She arrived in BKK more than 4 hours later than originally scheduled.

If my summary is correct, then each passenger on the reservation is entitled to 600 euros compensation. The airline will inevitably claim that the delay is due to technical issues and extraordinary circumstances but the ECJ has ruled in both the Sturgeon and Wallentin-Hermann precedent cases that Technical Issues would not normally be a valid defence under the Regulation.

Your daughter's hand will be further strengthened at the end of February when the ECJ hands down judgment in the Folkerts case. This concerned a passenger who was delayed on their first leg for less than 3 hours, but missed their onward connection and meant that they arrived at their final destination more than 3 hours later than originally scheduled.

As the judges in the Folkerts case have not asked for a Legal Opinion from the Advocate General you can be certain that this is because the case raises no new points of law and that the precedent case law in Sturgeon for this point will be followed in the forthcoming judgment (i.e. delays of more than 3 hours arriving at the passengers' final destination may be compensated).[/QUOTE

Thank you for your reply. Indeed you have summarised it correctly.We have received a very speedy response as follows, and they still haven't really grasped the problem. At the very least they are liablke for the first leg BHX to AMS ! What I don't understand from their reply is that the booking was made on one ticket with both boarding passes issued at BHX .Any suggectons what to write next ?
Here is their reply (and they can't even get the title correcet it's Ms not Mrs!
Thanks .
Subject: *****KLM reference ***

Dear Mrs. ....,,
Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately I cannot inform you differently than already done. The EU Regulation states how airlines must act according to their operation. Since this concerns a separate ticket this is not applicable. In case of all itinerary issued in one ticket the delaying airline is responsible for the continuing flights in the itinerary and issued in one ticket. In case of separate tickets there is no contract for KLM for the continuous flights issued on a different ticket.
I am sorry to be of no further assistance except for the payment of the direct costs. I will await your bank details and further needed information in order to reimburse you these costs.
With kind regards,
PASSENGER BUSINESS
Emmy Vonhof-Ormel
Customer Care
KLM Nederland

[Centipede100]

[QUOTE=Justwishin;59010543]

Originally Posted by Centipede100

Just to clarify, the first leg of your daughter's journey was from BHX to AMS on a KLM flight which was delayed to the extent that she missed the connection onto the China Airlines flight from AMS to BKK. She arrived in BKK more than 4 hours later than originally scheduled.

If my summary is correct, then each passenger on the reservation is entitled to 600 euros compensation. The airline will inevitably claim that the delay is due to technical issues and extraordinary circumstances but the ECJ has ruled in both the Sturgeon and Wallentin-Hermann precedent cases that Technical Issues would not normally be a valid defence under the Regulation.

Your daughter's hand will be further strengthened at the end of February when the ECJ hands down judgment in the Folkerts case. This concerned a passenger who was delayed on their first leg for less than 3 hours, but missed their onward connection and meant that they arrived at their final destination more than 3 hours later than originally scheduled.

As the judges in the Folkerts case have not asked for a Legal Opinion from the Advocate General you can be certain that this is because the case raises no new points of law and that the precedent case law in Sturgeon for this point will be followed in the forthcoming judgment (i.e. delays of more than 3 hours arriving at the passengers' final destination may be compensated).[/QUOTE

Thank you for your reply. Indeed you have summarised it correctly.We have received a very speedy response as follows, and they still haven't really grasped the problem. At the very least they are liablke for the first leg BHX to AMS ! What I don't understand from their reply is that the booking was made on one ticket with both boarding passes issued at BHX .Any suggectons what to write next ?
Here is their reply (and they can't even get the title correcet it's Ms not Mrs!
Thanks .
Subject: *****KLM reference ***

Dear Mrs. ....,

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately I cannot inform you differently than already done. The EU Regulation states how airlines must act according to their operation. Since this concerns a separate ticket this is not applicable. In case of all itinerary issued in one ticket the delaying airline is responsible for the continuing flights in the itinerary and issued in one ticket. In case of separate tickets there is no contract for KLM for the continuous flights issued on a different ticket.
I am sorry to be of no further assistance except for the payment of the direct costs. I will await your bank details and further needed information in order to reimburse you these costs.
With kind regards,
PASSENGER BUSINESS
Emmy Vonhof-Ormel
Customer Care

KLM Nederland

Can I just check one final time that your daughter had a single 6 digit reservation/PNR number for the entire journey?

KLM appear to be denying that the journey was on a single reservation so would like that clarifying before we go further.

[richardw]

Delete that identifying information ASAP justwishin! Airlines are reading this! Centipede100 doesn't need it.

[Centipede100]

Originally Posted by richardw

Delete that identifying information ASAP justwishin! Airlines are reading this! Centipede100 doesn't need it.

Seconded...

[Justwishin]

Hi centipede can you edit out name and reference from your quoted reply please .I have changed original as advised Many thanks .

[Justwishin]

Thanks , looking forward to your advice

[Mark2spark]

FAQ's

All blue words are links to relevant posts. Some are quoted just to save you doing that

WARNING
Claiming may not be a walk in the park. So research this (long) thread and the MSE article in order to discover useful information before you ask a question!

Airline bust= no claim

Anything from 17th Feb 2005 -you can claim but if the airline says no - you can't take them to court.

Flight Stats

Small claims time limit Its 6 years

Package holiday flights ARE covered.

Regulation261\2004

MSE article corrected

Technical fault with plane is NOT "extra ordinary circumstances" so you CAN claim
Extraordinary circumstances + Extra ordinary Circumstances
Technical issues
More Technical issues with background

Thomas Cook address
Thomas cook incident Oct 26 2012

KLM Claim form
Ryanair address
Ryanair Irish appeal explained - New!
How to combat Ryanair using the English Court System New!
BA Address
BA complaint web-site

BA forum explaining the regulation in plain english *ESSENTIAL READING*

Jet airways address
Compensation per person + Monarch email
Monarch Claim form

Centipede100 Template letter
CAA Template letter


Airline claims 2 years maximum to claim The UK time limit is 6 years, - that's the Law

Judgement on 22nd NOV confirms the limit is whatever applies in the Country-UK is 6 years
CAA Denied boarding
Right to Care
CAA contact details
European small claims

Original Sturgeon judgment giving rise to delay compensation:

Legal challenge to Sturgeon judgment:

MCOL : Link to the Court Forms

[ELIBEC]

Any advice appreciated.

Flew KLM/Martinair August 2010 from BHX to MCO via AMS. First leg was KLM and was on time. Arrived in AMS to find a 5 hour delay posted. Had been given no notification of this in Birmingham. Were given food vouchers to cover the delay and eventually took off just over 5 hours late. I have put in a compensation claim for the second half of the journey but had it denied on the grounds that the Netherlands have a 2 year time limit for claims. I have tried to read around this point and it does appear to be the case. Would it make any difference if I had claimed for the whole journey which started in the UK or is it that because as a Dutch company it doesn't matter where the journey started the time limit would be 2 years. I think I know the answer to this question really but just want another opinion.
Thanks for reading.

[blondmark]

Originally Posted by ELIBEC

Any advice appreciated.

Flew KLM/Martinair August 2010 from BHX to MCO via AMS. First leg was KLM and was on time. Arrived in AMS to find a 5 hour delay posted. Had been given no notification of this in Birmingham. Were given food vouchers to cover the delay and eventually took off just over 5 hours late. I have put in a compensation claim for the second half of the journey but had it denied on the grounds that the Netherlands have a 2 year time limit for claims. I have tried to read around this point and it does appear to be the case. Would it make any difference if I had claimed for the whole journey which started in the UK or is it that because as a Dutch company it doesn't matter where the journey started the time limit would be 2 years. I think I know the answer to this question really but just want another opinion.
Thanks for reading.

If you are a consumer based in England then the relevant time period is 6 years - not 2. (Section 9 of the Limitation Act [1980] provides that "an action to recover any sum recoverable by virtue of any enactment shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date of which the cause of action accrued.")

Why does English law apply?

The Brussels Regulation provides that the contract between a business (KLM) and a consumer (you) cannot deprive the consumer of the protection of the laws of the country in which s/he has her/his habitual residence (i.e. England).

This is echoed in the E-Commerce Regulations 2002 which, while providing for a "country of origin" principle meaning that suppliers will only be liable in their home jurisdiction, specifically excludes consumer transactions from such protection.

This means that KLM will be obliged to meet all of the legal requirements relating to the sale of services of the type being sold in the country where you are based.

You would sue KLM under the European Small Claims Procedure using Form A to be issued in an English county court and served on them in Holland. You might want to check first though whether you must serve your proceedings in Dutch (e-mail THESE PEOPLE). If so, the cost of professional translation can be included in your claim.

[ryesmile]

I booked flights via Asda Travel (for myself) and Opodo (for my parents) with KLM in December 2007.

Flights were from Birmingham to Almaty (Kazakhstan) via Amsterdam. Flights were made on the same booking reference.

Total delay was 36 hours - flight was cancelled twice (first time round the BHX-AMS leg was cancelled, second time AMS-ALA was cancelled) and I was flown via Paris and Moscow.

First question, do I claim from the agents or KLM? And secondly, does the total travel distance count for the calculation of compensation ie 6000km not 500km for the first leg?

[Centipede100]

Originally Posted by ryesmile

I booked flights via Asda Travel (for myself) and Opodo (for my parents) with KLM in December 2007.

Flights were from Birmingham to Almaty (Kazakhstan) via Amsterdam. Flights were made on the same booking reference.

Total delay was 36 hours - flight was cancelled twice (first time round the BHX-AMS leg was cancelled, second time AMS-ALA was cancelled) and I was flown via Paris and Moscow.

First question, do I claim from the agents or KLM? And secondly, does the total travel distance count for the calculation of compensation ie 6000km not 500km for the first leg?

Airline

total distance

[Colmorgan]

We flew with Klm from ams to Dubai feb 2012, flight cancelled, put up in hotel, fed, flew next day got 50€ voucher each.
Copied and pasted the standard letter in here last week asking for €600 each, within a week got �250 vouchers each so am pleased with that