Flight Delay Compensation, Lufthansa Only

[y2jammie]

Hi,

I'm currently in the middle of a compensation claim for a cancelled flight with Lufthansa that brought about more than a 2 hour delay to my arrival back in the UK.

Has anyone had any compensation claims / success with Lufthansa before?

[Vauban]

Needs to be three hours or more to qualify, y2jammie. How late were you?

[y2jammie]

As far as I am aware from MSE website - its more than 3 hours for a delay, more than 2 hours for a cancellation.

[y2jammie]

Following my claim for compensation, I had the following response from Lufthansa - doesn't look like I can take it any further?

Even though I've been on flightstats website and my flight was the only one cancelled departure from Dusseldorf within 5 hours of my scheduled departure time? I think they're lieing?

We would like to apologise for any inconvenience caused due to the fact that your flight, LH3386 from Dusseldorf to London on 16 June 2012 was cancelled. This flight was cancelled as a result of an earlier airport closure due to the need to remove a disabled aircraft. As we are sure you can understand Lufthansa has no influence over the decision to close an airport.

In circumstances such as this, it is the responsibility of the airline to ensure that your Contract of Carriage is completed. We are pleased to note that we were able to complete your Contract of Carriage by rebooking you onto flight, LH3388, later that day.
We also apologise for the departure delay to flight LH3388. This flight was delayed as a result of the late arrival of the aircraft from a previous flight. This late arrival was due to operational controls. Once again this is something outside of Lufthansa’s influence.
Whilst we understand your comments regarding the inconvenience that the cancellation of flight LH3386 and the delay to flight LH3388 caused you, we appreciate your understanding that we are unfortunately unable to comply with your request for compensation. We are conforming to the stipulations of Article 5 Paragraph 3 of European Union Regulation 261/2004 in this matter.

We also aware that a part of this delay on LH3388 was regarding the parking position of the flight upon arrival in London. We regret this may have added further to your delay and we are sorry for any inconvenience that this may have caused you. However, the parking position for each aircraft is allocated by the airport authority at the arrival airport and the pilot must comply with this instruction.

Whilst we realise that this may not be the response that you had anticipated, we hope for your understanding of our position.
We look forward to welcoming you onboard future Lufthansa flights and we assure you that we will do everything we can to make sure your future travel experiences run smoothly.

[Centipede100]

Originally Posted by y2jammie

Following my claim for compensation, I had the following response from Lufthansa - doesn't look like I can take it any further?

Even though I've been on flightstats website and my flight was the only one cancelled departure from Dusseldorf within 5 hours of my scheduled departure time? I think they're lieing?

We would like to apologise for any inconvenience caused due to the fact that your flight, LH3386 from Dusseldorf to London on 16 June 2012 was cancelled. This flight was cancelled as a result of an earlier airport closure due to the need to remove a disabled aircraft. As we are sure you can understand Lufthansa has no influence over the decision to close an airport.

In circumstances such as this, it is the responsibility of the airline to ensure that your Contract of Carriage is completed. We are pleased to note that we were able to complete your Contract of Carriage by rebooking you onto flight, LH3388, later that day.
We also apologise for the departure delay to flight LH3388. This flight was delayed as a result of the late arrival of the aircraft from a previous flight. This late arrival was due to operational controls. Once again this is something outside of Lufthansa�s influence.
Whilst we understand your comments regarding the inconvenience that the cancellation of flight LH3386 and the delay to flight LH3388 caused you, we appreciate your understanding that we are unfortunately unable to comply with your request for compensation. We are conforming to the stipulations of Article 5 Paragraph 3 of European Union Regulation 261/2004 in this matter.

We also aware that a part of this delay on LH3388 was regarding the parking position of the flight upon arrival in London. We regret this may have added further to your delay and we are sorry for any inconvenience that this may have caused you. However, the parking position for each aircraft is allocated by the airport authority at the arrival airport and the pilot must comply with this instruction.

Whilst we realise that this may not be the response that you had anticipated, we hope for your understanding of our position.
We look forward to welcoming you onboard future Lufthansa flights and we assure you that we will do everything we can to make sure your future travel experiences run smoothly.

Where was this airport closure that necessitated the cancellation of your flight? Was it Dusseldorf or some other airport? Did LH not have any other aircraft to perform the flight? What did LH do to mitigate against the cancellation i.e. what reasonable measures did they or could they have taken?

What are these 'operational controls' that delayed your replacement flight? How long did the stand parking at the gate add to the delay of your replacement flight? Did it take the flight over a 3 hour delay or was that already delayed by more than 3 hours?

Some mealy-mouthed words from LH but I would suggest that there is a foundation for a cancellation plus a delay claim in all of this saga.

[Centipede100]

FAQs

All blue words are links to relevant posts.

WARNING
Please read these FAQ's and guidance, together with the MSE article in order to discover useful information before you ask a question!

What to do next after reading the FAQ's.

Airline bust = no claim

The claim is against the airline, not the travel agent, not the package holiday company.

Anything from 17th Feb 2005 -you can claim but if the airline says no - you can't take them to court.... but check out the corrections to the (inaccurate) MSE article:

MSE article corrected

Flight Stats Check your delay length time (you may have to register)

'Which!' draft letter to set the ball rolling Start off your claim
Alternatively:

CAA Template letter Standard claim letter to initiate a claim

After denial of your claim, issue 14 days notice of Court Action:

Centipede100 Template letter This is the 'Notice Before Action' letter (NBA or LBA)

Explanation of the legal process of NBA, 14 days notice before court claim.

Small claims time limitIts 6 years in the UK
European court press release on time limits to claim It's the time limit in each member state, which in the UK is 6 years.

Package holiday flights ARE covered.

Regulation261\2004
CAA Denied boarding
Right to Care
CAA contact details

Technical fault with plane is NOT "extra ordinary circumstances" so you CAN claim
Extraordinary circumstances + Extra ordinary Circumstances
Technical issues
More Technical issues with background
EC's explained yet again

Thomas Cook address, phone number, and email address
Thomas cook incident Oct 26 2012

Thomson address
Emirates Airlines address

KLM Claim form
Ryanair address
Ryanair Irish appeal explained
How to combat Ryanair using the English Court System
BA Address
BA complaint web-site

BA forum explaining the regulation in plain english *ESSENTIAL READING*

Jet airways address

Compensation per person + Monarch email
Monarch Claim form

European small claims court forms How to issue a court claim against a foreign airline with no UK address

Airline claims 2 years maximum to claim The UK time limit is 6 years, - that's the Law

Judgement on 22nd NOV confirms the limit is whatever applies in the Country - UK is 6 years

Wallentin-Hermann judgement The concept of extraordinary circumstances explained in legal terms

Original Sturgeon judgment giving rise to delay compensation:

Legal challenge to Sturgeon judgment - The ECJ Grand Chamber ruling on the 23 October 2012

Folkerts v Air France case C-11/11 Missed connection due to delay on first flight still qualifies for compensation if arrival is later than 3 hours

MCOL : Link to the Court Forms

[y2jammie]

Thanks Centipede,

Having taken a look around on Flightstats, and searching for airport closures on 16 June 2012 - I can see that Jersey airport was closed on this date which led to a Lufthansa flight arriving nearly 600 minutes late (which may / may not have been my plane). Not Dusseldorf itself.

Dusseldorf is a Lufthansa hub, i'd expect there to be some Lufthansa planes there that could have completed the journey (it's only about an hour after all).

Given the small amount of people who I saw waiting around after the original flight was cancelled, I think they decided most of us would fit on the next one and decided to just cancel it.

[Centipede100]

Originally Posted by y2jammie

Thanks Centipede,

Having taken a look around on Flightstats, and searching for airport closures on 16 June 2012 - I can see that Jersey airport was closed on this date which led to a Lufthansa flight arriving nearly 600 minutes late (which may / may not have been my plane). Not Dusseldorf itself.

Dusseldorf is a Lufthansa hub, i'd expect there to be some Lufthansa planes there that could have completed the journey (it's only about an hour after all).

Given the small amount of people who I saw waiting around after the original flight was cancelled, I think they decided most of us would fit on the next one and decided to just cancel it.

I too would expect rather more than a single aircraft available at a hub...

[y2jammie]

I've actually just been through Lufthansa flights on this day in and out of Dusseldorf.

My original flight was meant to depart Dusseldorf at 18:30 local time.

According to flightstats...

40 Lufthansa flights arrived in to Dusseldorf between 12pm - 18:15pm local time.

35 Lufthansa flights departed Dusseldorf between 12pm - 18:15pm local time.

During the whole day from 12pm....

65 Lufthansa flights flew in to Dusseldorf
45 Lufthansa flights flew out of Dusseldorf

Based on the first part, would the airline be inclined to use another aircraft rather than cancelling through? given that the stats say there should have been 5 spares just from the flight information available.

[Centipede100]

Originally Posted by y2jammie

I've actually just been through Lufthansa flights on this day in and out of Dusseldorf.

My original flight was meant to depart Dusseldorf at 18:30 local time.

According to flightstats...

40 Lufthansa flights arrived in to Dusseldorf between 12pm - 18:15pm local time.

35 Lufthansa flights departed Dusseldorf between 12pm - 18:15pm local time.

During the whole day from 12pm....

65 Lufthansa flights flew in to Dusseldorf
45 Lufthansa flights flew out of Dusseldorf

Based on the first part, would the airline be inclined to use another aircraft rather than cancelling through? given that the stats say there should have been 5 spares just from the flight information available.

So plenty of potential aircraft from which to provide a replacement, don't think LH would win a case based on "taking all reasonable measures" do you?

[y2jammie]

Cheers Centipede, would the following response be suitable do you think? (with attachments of arrival and departures on that day):

Dear Lufthansa,

The closure of Jersey Airport during this day which may have caused a Lufthansa plane to arrive late in to Dusseldorf does not account for the fact that the flight information supplied proves that there were at least 5 spare aircraft at Dusseldorf (a Lufthansa Hub) at the time of our scheduled departure, and that Lufthansa chose not to use them to fulfil our booking adequately. Lufthansa did therefore not take reasonable measures to prevent this cancellation and delay to me under EU Regulation 261/2004.

The information provided shows flight information for Lufthansa flights in and out of Dusseldorf Airport on 16 June 2012, between 12pm and 18:15pm local time – for the purposes of showing available aircraft for our 18:30pm departure which was cancelled.

It clearly shows that 40 Lufthansa flights arrived in to Dusseldorf during this time frame, and only 35 flights departed during the same time period. Therefore leaving at least 5 available aircraft to carry out this journey and avoid this cancellation and unnecessary delays to myself and the other passengers on my booking.

The actual flight slot of 18:30 would still have been available for this flight from Dusseldorf as the original flight would have still had this available time to take off, and therefore it was Lufthansa’s decision to cancel this flight rather than operational decisions outside of their control.

I look forward to hearing back from you within 14 days, following your consideration of this evidence and with regards the issuing of myself and the 3 other passengers on booking xxxxxx with compensation. Failing that I will have no choice but to take the matter further through the CAA and through a claims court.

Yours Sincerely,

[Centipede100]

Originally Posted by y2jammie

Cheers Centipede, would the following response be suitable do you think? (with attachments of arrival and departures on that day):

Dear Lufthansa,

The closure of Jersey Airport during this day which may have caused a Lufthansa plane to arrive late in to Dusseldorf does not account for the fact that the flight information supplied proves that there were at least 5 spare aircraft at Dusseldorf (a Lufthansa Hub) at the time of our scheduled departure, and that Lufthansa chose not to use them to fulfil our booking adequately. Lufthansa did therefore not take reasonable measures to prevent this cancellation and delay to me under EU Regulation 261/2004.

The information provided shows flight information for Lufthansa flights in and out of Dusseldorf Airport on 16 June 2012, between 12pm and 18:15pm local time � for the purposes of showing available aircraft for our 18:30pm departure which was cancelled.

It clearly shows that 40 Lufthansa flights arrived in to Dusseldorf during this time frame, and only 35 flights departed during the same time period. Therefore leaving at least 5 available aircraft to carry out this journey and avoid this cancellation and unnecessary delays to myself and the other passengers on my booking.

The actual flight slot of 18:30 would still have been available for this flight from Dusseldorf as the original flight would have still had this available time to take off, and therefore it was Lufthansa�s decision to cancel this flight rather than operational decisions outside of their control.

I look forward to hearing back from you within 14 days, following your consideration of this evidence and with regards the issuing of myself and the 3 other passengers on booking xxxxxx with compensation. Failing that I will have no choice but to take the matter further through the CAA and through a claims court.

Yours Sincerely,

How do you know it is Jersey airport that was closed? Has the airline stated this? Don't make assumptions, let the airline tell you what happened rather than give them ideas.

Head it Letter before Action or Notice before Action and state the amount of compensation in euros you require in the last paragraph. Omit the reference to the CAA.

[KIE43132]

I have just sent a letter. I will keep you guys updated because it seems Lufthansa haven't had many claims from MSE's.

Hopefully I bring good news.

Kieran.

[y2jammie]

Good Luck Kieran,

I responded to Lufthansa's extraordinary circumstances response with my argument and evidence for why I felt that they had not taken reasonable measures.

It's been nearly 3 weeks now after requesting a response within 14 days but I've still not had anything back.

I'll give them another week I think (because of the recent snow issues which probably caused a lot of customer service work for them) before pressing on through the CAA and potentially a small claims court for myself and the other 3 passengers on the booking.

[helenpaterson]

Anyone got the address to send claim to Lufthansa? Thanks

[y2jammie]

I got quick responses from them by contacting them through their website contact form, they forwarded things on to relevant people. Still waiting for resolution though.

Their address on documents I was sent by them in the post was:

Lufthansa
PO Box No. 9669
Dublin 3
Ireland

[Sicillian]

y2jammie/centipede100

I am new to forum discussions however have read your previous comments regarding Lufthansa delays/cancellations and took the courage to write to them also last Saturday.
I used their website contact page however do you think I should post a letter directly to them? i.e. Germany/Ireland addresses
Thanks Sicillian
PS. your advice is fab!

[y2jammie]

Contacting them through the customer service online system seems to be the easiest way of getting in touch with them. You also have proof that they've received your issue.

They were very responsive to the process by email once they had got back to me originally, dealing with me solely online and not once asking me to post anything. They still haven't paid out and are playing hard ball, but online seems to be fine with them so wouldn't waste the money posting things to them.

[Sicillian]

y2jammie
Many thanks, I have just checked my emails and have received the standard reply from Lufthansa saying my claim has been passed to the relevant department and have quoted a feedback ference number.
Will definitely stick with online communication for now.
Can I ask how long ago you started process just so I have a rough idea of timeline?

[y2jammie]

I submitted my original issue (requesting exact details of the flights that I was scheduled on/re-booked on to) on 4 December 2012, had a response on 17 December.

That response basically asked me to send them a scanned copy of my passport and my signature in order for them to confirm that I boarded the flights in question and to make sure they send me the right information.

I was then posted complete information of the flights I was scheduled to fly on from my booking, and the actual flights I took (including the cancelled flight details).

I then told them that I would be proceeding with claiming compensation based on that information, and was passed on to their customer service team in Germany who they said handled compensation claims (as the UK team do not handle this and that is who I had been talking to).

A few weeks later I had an email from Lufthansa in Germany telling me they'd taken sufficient measures etc etc - and we're still ongoing now.